Farming T4 Memory Cloud???

[tapwater]

How are you to pretend knowing at 100% the intention of devs around this ? You just don't know, like others, but pretending is not proving.

Ok, I really should have said 99.9% sure. There is always the small chance Funcom really does want one person to let hundreds/thousands of people into MC that have never killed Sheng-Emperor.

under 60sec Louhi kills
kill Louhi while draining mana and ignore coffins
kill Athyr Bast tank&spank style
kill Kyllikki before she runs off to summon the adds
kill Vistrix before it can do the stun spell
shard farming using the tables

what thoughts do the above examples generate?

- 60 sec Louhi kill
This is iffy. Funcom didn't expect players to be able to manage to kill Louhi that fast. But, when nearly geared out/good players poured on the dps, they managed to kill the boss before the script could continue on to the next stage. Players aren't really abusing a mechanic, they are simply completing the encounter faster than expected, thereby not haveing to deal with the full encounter mechanics. You could say it was unintended, and Funcom did alter the fight to make that less possible.
- kill Athyr Bast tank&spank style
This has honestly always appeared to be bypassing the mechanics of the fight to me. I have never seen the fight done any other way and have only read about the intended mechanic.
- kill Kyllikki before she runs off to summon the adds
Same thoughts as 60 sec Louhi kill. If you can manage to down her before the raid script can continue its normal operation, that simply means you are a really strong raid force.
- kill Vistrix before it can do the stun spell
Same as 60 sec Louhi kill or Kyllikki.
- shard farming using the tables
I'm not sure what you mean by shard farming using the tables. I admit I haven't shard farmed a ton. Is this something like standing on tables where mobs can't attack you so you can kill them easily while solo?

A lot of this comes down to encounter design. An encounter may be made with a specific idea in mind about how to complete it, but that doesn't mean all other methods are exploits. Game developers expect players to find new/creative ways of doing things. It is just when they take things too far and abuse an unintended mechanic that things start to be classified as exploits.

[Rathothis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the instance layout of T4 is the only case where the instance binding mechanic can be used in the exact manner of those who farm MC. I don't find it as much of a surprise that that edge case in the Instance binding Mechanics was never noticed or properly handled.

How so? People do advertise "TA only" T3 raids on global. Correct me if I am wrong, but this would also have worked when T3 was the end game, and before it was split into 2 different instances.

Is the current issue with MC any different?

[Loaf-of-Evil]

my new account

sweet! Another name we can add to your collection!

Netsike/throughthedoor/ringofset/kingkozak...

[bogus]

Ok, I really should have said 99.9% sure.

You mean 1%. If they would think about this it would be as it is or never happen. If they did not want to us to create this opportunity they would do SOMETHING. We might find way to bypass but there would be something to bypass. But there is nothing.

All MC whiners talks about devs intentions even if all facts proves something opposite. That's spirit.

[tapwater]

How so? People do advertise "TA only" T3 raids on global. Correct me if I am wrong, but this would also have worked when T3 was the end game, and before it was split into 2 different instances.

Is the current issue with MC any different?

T3 has always been different from the MC farming.

I assume all Toth only T3 raids are simply raid continuations that had not killed toth yet. As far as I know you can't create new instances that start at Toth with Louhi and Keeper already dead, so there isn't any potential exploit involved here (to my knowledge).

When T3 was endgame, T3 was 1 single instance, all bosses together. You had to kill all bosses in order (unless you glitched your way through a door). There was no way to create new instances that started anywhere other than with the 3 brothers.

The MC issue is being able to spawn an infinite number of MC instances that allow people to bypass Sheng-Emperor. You can't spawn an infinite number of Toth only instances.

[bogus]

You can't spawn an infinite number of Toth only instances.

But you can spawn infinite number of Louhi only instances. If there would be any reason to do it. But that not means going Louhi only is exploiting.

[Drest]

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

In the case of the Memory cloud it seems to me that you are not in fact exploiting the system because:

1. In order to get to the memory cloud you need to kill the bosses leading up to it and;

2. You need to actually do the fights in Memory cloud in order to roll on the loot.

3. Jade Citadel is by design split into sections to facilitate easier access to the later parts of the instance after killing the bosses to get there.

Does this in any way create an unfair advantage to anyone?
Well, it could be argued that in some ways it is an equalizer rather than a divider as it opens up possibilities for those not in a leading raid guild to access higher tier loots.

[Gwart]

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

In the case of the Memory cloud it seems to me that you are not in fact exploiting the system because:

1. In order to get to the memory cloud you need to kill the bosses leading up to it and;

2. You need to actually do the fights in Memory cloud in order to roll on the loot.

3. Jade Citadel is by design split into sections to facilitate easier access to the later parts of the instance after killing the bosses to get there.

Does this in any way create an unfair advantage to anyone?
Well, it could be argued that in some ways it is an equalizer rather than a divider as it opens up possibilities for those not in a leading raid guild to access higher tier loots.

Conunitu Lissen.

[Argantes]

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

In the case of the Memory cloud it seems to me that you are not in fact exploiting the system because:

1. In order to get to the memory cloud you need to kill the bosses leading up to it and;

2. You need to actually do the fights in Memory cloud in order to roll on the loot.

3. Jade Citadel is by design split into sections to facilitate easier access to the later parts of the instance after killing the bosses to get there.

Does this in any way create an unfair advantage to anyone?
Well, it could be argued that in some ways it is an equalizer rather than a divider as it opens up possibilities for those not in a leading raid guild to access higher tier loots.

this all is okay.. but are you aware of the fact, that once you reach MC, you can replicate that instance ad nauseam (and in theory, with a single general to emperor clearing distribute MC+ loot to every single character on the server)? because that´s the main problem and doesn´t seem to be mentioned in your post

[Phil77]

I assume all Toth only T3 raids are simply raid continuations that had not killed toth yet.

lets assume same with Memory Cloud. One player from the original raid need to drop out of a raid for whatever reason and is unable to finish the raid with his/her guild. Couple of days later that same person starts a raid to continue from where he/she had to leave in the previous raid and that happens to be after when the emperor was killed.

This person invites people from his/her guild and seeing that is unable to fill the raid with guild members and goes to global to seek players for the remaining spots(number can vary and what ever the number is, between 23 and 1 has nothing to do with anything).

is this player exploiting or simply continuing a raid that was left unfinished on his/hers part?