Raid gear, world bosses and Solo'ing and Small groups.

[-Shink-]

For example, other MMO games specially provoke conflicts and give players a reason to participate in PVP.
The question is the players are sufficiently motivated to participate in PvP of AoC?

I am not motivated to pvp in AoC cause i cannot play with my friends and now-days pugs have about 0 teamwork=no fun for me.I 've been level 8 for like 2 years ,then got to level 9 2 years ago for the shake of it and i cannot be arsed to pvp in that environment not even for completion's shake cause it's simply no fun for me.It's way more fun to be stomped by a better team in DotA 2 playing in same team with my friends rather than win an easy aoc-cannot-sign-with-your-friends and be in same team minigame.

Funcom had to listen to the "i have no friends and those baddies are pre-mading and stomping me" crybabies plus they never figured a solution to make the instant gratification idiots not exploit the system(or ban them for it) and run "friendly" minis for tokens or kill each other and their bunch of alts for xp and k/d so here we are...half the blame and shame is with the pvp "only" community though ,because they asked for crap like this and they did exploit anything they could find.

Gear progression/gear competition is the last thing i'd care about in pvp...

Would love to see an arena system of 2v2 /3v3 /6v6 and items purchased based on rating like wow with an ELO system running ...too late now ,unfortunately much worse games do pvp much better than AoC.

*sigh*

[Roddam]

I am not motivated to pvp in AoC cause i cannot play with my friends and now-days pugs have about 0 teamwork=no fun for me.I 've been level 8 for like 2 years ,then got to level 9 2 years ago for the shake of it and i cannot be arsed to pvp in that environment not even for completion's shake cause it's simply no fun for me.It's way more fun to be stomped by a better team in DotA 2 playing in same team with my friends rather than win an easy aoc-cannot-sign-with-your-friends and be in same team minigame.

Funcom had to listen to the "i have no friends and those baddies are pre-mading and stomping me" crybabies plus they never figured a solution to make the instant gratification idiots not exploit the system(or ban them for it) and run "friendly" minis for tokens or kill each other and their bunch of alts for xp and k/d so here we are...half the blame and shame is with the pvp "only" community though ,because they asked for crap like this and they did exploit anything they could find.

Gear progression/gear competition is the last thing i'd care about in pvp...

Would love to see an arena system of 2v2 /3v3 /6v6 and items purchased based on rating like wow with an ELO system running ...too late now ,unfortunately much worse games do pvp much better than AoC.

*sigh*

The real issue in my opinion is that everyone is my friend and everyone is my enemy. In any other MMO I have played that had PvP we always had a "side" we were on. If I entered a mini game (or something reasonably similar), I would be on the same team as my friends because we were on the same "side". It is far too late and population is too small now to fix this. In the early days of AoC it was not noticed so much as we had large guilds with players of all levels. We protected our "little ones". This is no longer the case and from what I can see everyone just plain hates everyone else. Add in to the mix the gear and AA advantage that long time PvP players have, it makes it too hard for new players to get going, and many of the new players just plain stop doing any PvP. Without new players, you end up playing with and against the same people day after day after day.

[Korando-AoC]

I am not motivated to pvp in AoC cause i cannot play with my friends and now-days pugs have about 0 teamwork=no fun for me.I 've been level 8 for like 2 years ,then got to level 9 2 years ago for the shake of it and i cannot be arsed to pvp in that environment not even for completion's shake cause it's simply no fun for me.It's way more fun to be stomped by a better team in DotA 2 playing in same team with my friends rather than win an easy aoc-cannot-sign-with-your-friends and be in same team minigame.

Funcom had to listen to the "i have no friends and those baddies are pre-mading and stomping me" crybabies plus they never figured a solution to make the instant gratification idiots not exploit the system(or ban them for it) and run "friendly" minis for tokens or kill each other and their bunch of alts for xp and k/d so here we are...half the blame and shame is with the pvp "only" community though ,because they asked for crap like this and they did exploit anything they could find.

Gear progression/gear competition is the last thing i'd care about in pvp...

Would love to see an arena system of 2v2 /3v3 /6v6 and items purchased based on rating like wow with an ELO system running ...too late now ,unfortunately much worse games do pvp much better than AoC.

*sigh*

Actually you are allowed to play with your friends.. it's the tab called "Tournament Mode".
It's fun that everyone - there are hundreds of posts about this subject - asks for something, which already exists..
Technically what people asks is to *remove* something - the random queque - , not to implement something new.

Anyway I don't want to start a troll discussion about this topic - which is offtopic in this thread - but objectively what I wrote is true.
We miss a buddy queque in random queque, this is true. And I'm up for that too.
But the extreme version of that - a queque which fully allow to play even with a full group of friends - already exists.

[Kellisia]

PVP is a completely other story than PVE, PVP gear tier 1 should indeed be given for free, it will be better for everyone. Every day you see someone in global whining cause non-geared players join pvp in blues. In pvp you're supposed to be able to just jump in and be competetive right away, coming in to pvp being a strawman for a couple of days/weeks is an unnecessary step frustrating for everyone.

Nice pvp thread...


Pvp has a good progression.. I don't think t1 pvp gear need to be free maybe cap'd out at pvp2 to get it all. But if you do more than just pvp. I used to see people run around in mini in t3 dragon gear for protection. AN just K6 gear to get by till higher.
Personally I have Pvp on a necro to 10 and bori a DT to 10 for the T3 gear just to have for Vanity. An if you have the time and do bori even with other attackers.. you can get 10 in about 2 weeks if you put that kind of time into it.
I did over push my self and actually did 12 hour days in bori, and made 6 -10 in 6days. An now with the festival and Mini games.. you can get there pretty fast along with the xp rings if you buy them from the shop. It just depends on the what you can enjoy.

Most the time before the Euro merge players would see me in Bori and just join and sit. But that wouldn't bother me. I know how mind aching it can be from banging rocks.
Which brings me back to the point in my thread.. If theres a small incentive like being able to sit in like those did in bori during my sessions. People go for it. Problem is the game is free to pvp side.

I agree on all Redd wrote here.
I'm not into T5 / T6 raiding, but I don't want that gear to be given for free (aka soloing), because that would completely destroy the sense of gear progression which is essential in PvE.
I agree that this game at the moment lack some group (6men) content, but overall things are pretty good nowdays gear wise.
If one day I will have the time and will to aim for the best raid gear in game, I actually want to raid for it.
That's what game is about, having fun WHILE aiming for some goal (gear, PvP skill and levels, achievements etc).
The fun doesn't come from gear itself.
A MMORPG game where gear is given for free, money or soloing would die in short time.
Buy something more useful for your life with your credit card, or a single player game if you like that kind of videogame.

It seems like your at a stand between with my post and Redd comment. If your saying the game lacks some group content. Than you are already seeing my view. Many people or not sure about Euros side.. But most of us
American players blew threw K6 and have gear up the wazoo from there.

The game suffered for Guilds that would have 32 34 people get in and some would get angry because there was only 1 raid. An not many pugs.
Global/Pug raids can be a workout for someone. You get in possibly success at a few fights.

You state that if you have time for the best raid gear. No the idea of this, is you won't get it for free. But over time you will have the chance to obtain a Piece. An Each area like solo will have it own progression.. coming down to raiders having more for the Credit Card also.
Since Raiding and 6 mans are really the only thing that is content for payment.

Redd and a few others act like this is a idea that will just throw out gear. AN I believe a couple other posters there was a statement that, this Idea isn't a bad one as long as Funcom is able to do it correctly. People sign in and out just for raids.
An your state me most single player games come 1 time payment. Which I have those too when I decide to not play AOC. Do to as you say lack of content. Redd also states I'm a gear whore. Hmm Guess I am if I have ran out of things to do in the game.
At a small rate and T4 t5 t6 is only thing that comes any where near to gear after K6 six. Than all there is to do is raid. As I said.. Some people don't want to spend 4 hours in a raid. So if they don't get in a guild raid they log out. If that keeps happening for months.
The game will more likely lose that player or players. This I have seen happen in the past.

Now if this is happening. How is that helping profit for Funcom to speed up the release of content. Now say if these small margin of Soloing for raid tokens to buy form the vendor brings community back. The game isn't going to die.. Funcom would have the funds to put to the game. An with the recent partnership with aoc properties. If something didn't happen, well this game would been gone any how.

So stop thinking this is about free gear.. Your still going to have to work for it. But it gives equal opportunity to everyone. AN more to those who raid. An if done right. Could end up bring more people to raiding.

An Korando-AoC when you have the time to raid.. You won't be going in feeling Carried because you may have obtained a couple items in the course of your time out of raiding or just possibly saved what you made.

Again games are ment to be played as fun not work. We have people who fear pug raids. AN we have guilds that have people who sit out. Possibly quit the game. Who actually love to play aoc. But can't find the worth in the money the spend.

Actually you are allowed to play with your friends.. it's the tab called "Tournament Mode".
It's fun that everyone - there are hundreds of posts about this subject - asks for something, which already exists..
Technically what people asks is to *remove* something - the random queque - , not to implement something new.

Anyway I don't want to start a troll discussion about this topic - which is offtopic in this thread - but objectively what I wrote is true.
We miss a buddy queque in random queque, this is true. And I'm up for that too.
But the extreme version of that - a queque which fully allow to play even with a full group of friends - already exists.

Your post is alright in this thread Korando.

I actually have made some suggestion in the past about 1-5 pvp games and 6-10 for a balance. Last time I was in a mini balance system seemed to be a bit off.
An I agree with you.. They should have a Pre-made Group tab.

Maybe they could take the Tabs in it and since nobody uses that Tournament mode much.. Make a Random tab, group vs group 1-5 6-10.. Yah a lot of useless tabs possibly
could throw off the system. But Possibly over time. People get used to choosing which one and then eventually removal of what doesn't work out.

[Anzu]

Please do NOT post three times in a row. Edit your messages, or write it first in a text editor.

[-Shink-]

Actually you are allowed to play with your friends.. it's the tab called "Tournament Mode".
It's fun that everyone - there are hundreds of posts about this subject - asks for something, which already exists..
Technically what people asks is to *remove* something - the random queque - , not to implement something new.

Anyway I don't want to start a troll discussion about this topic - which is offtopic in this thread - but objectively what I wrote is true.
We miss a buddy queque in random queque, this is true. And I'm up for that too.
But the extreme version of that - a queque which fully allow to play even with a full group of friends - already exists.

Except that the tournament mode never worked because you need to gather 12 players willing to do that at the same time and organize etc ...Keep the complete random cue you like so much,add a not so random cue alongside tournament mode and lets see what happens. ..YEAH its MISSING...

And since you started this game a bit later than me i ll tell you i remember the day half our guild pvpers quit playing altogether because of tournament mode not really delivering and being forced into the random shithole ..then the rest of them started to slowly follow them out ....

[slackjoint]

Sorry, but after reading so many deformed versions of the same word, I just have to play the grammar nazi here.
The word is spelled "queue".
.

[Dieselconq]

for last half year i saw "learning" in lfm spam 2 or 3 times. ones it was t3.5 raid, don`t remember others. but every day, everyone asking for xp/aa/gear. last 2 you can get if you have xp but i`m not so dumb to think that if i looked a few vids on ytube i have xp, not working this way) problem is not in gear, problem is that no one want help get some xp. why ppl from "cool" guilds not making learning raids? 12-18 ppl in t4-t6 gear can easy show to 6-12 half noobs t3 raid. no) xp/aa/gear
Hope you guys will think about this befor here will be no one to fill yr high tier raids. also i think will help a lot just cut raids cd to 3 days. 3-4h for full t1 run and then 7days cd))))
afraid to considered how much time will take to get full t2 set only in raids) wb not always help( for 2 weeks my dt got 1x t1 sword, 1x t1 shield(not funny))) a bit better with armors in same time guy from guild got about 5x t1 swords and 3x t2 but not got any helm)))

p.s. what better? give fish to hungry man or give a fishing rod and taught how to fish?)))

[-Shink-]

for last half year i saw "learning" in lfm spam 2 or 3 times. ones it was t3.5 raid, don`t remember others. but every day, everyone asking for xp/aa/gear. last 2 you can get if you have xp but i`m not so dumb to think that if i looked a few vids on ytube i have xp, not working this way) problem is not in gear, problem is that no one want help get some xp. why ppl from "cool" guilds not making learning raids? 12-18 ppl in t4-t6 gear can easy show to 6-12 half noobs t3 raid. no) xp/aa/gear
Hope you guys will think about this befor here will be no one to fill yr high tier raids. also i think will help a lot just cut raids cd to 3 days. 3-4h for full t1 run and then 7days cd))))
afraid to considered how much time will take to get full t2 set only in raids) wb not always help( for 2 weeks my dt got 1x t1 sword, 1x t1 shield(not funny))) a bit better with armors in same time guy from guild got about 5x t1 swords and 3x t2 but not got any helm)))

p.s. what better? give fish to hungry man or give a fishing rod and taught how to fish?)))

Johara does learning runs all the time,including taking anyone in t3.5 and t4 ,then she gets questioned on her tactics ."Turn the dragon or we are all dead".Then the dragon isn't turned ,is killed and it's still "You just got lucky" ."You kill YI-Qin along with adds and not at the entrance?CRAZY TACTICS I AM OUT" and so on...It would be nice if majority of the non xp players would like to get the fishing rod,instead they prefer to be proud and right.At least some do

[Korando-AoC]

Except that the tournament mode never worked because you need to gather 12 players willing to do that at the same time and organize etc ...Keep the complete random cue you like so much,add a not so random cue alongside tournament mode and lets see what happens. ..YEAH its MISSING...

And since you started this game a bit later than me i ll tell you i remember the day half our guild pvpers quit playing altogether because of tournament mode not really delivering and being forced into the random shithole ..then the rest of them started to slowly follow them out ....

Shink is lot more simple: people don't use Tournament Queque because there is no incentive for it - no ranking system, no group stats, no achievements, no true "Torunament" mode, no special tokens for whatsoever, no "leagues" split for newbies and veterans etc etc etc.
Otherwise 6 people would gather to form a group for PvP as they do for PvE.
And you would easily have 2 groups running at same time.

The same logic applies to guild PvP.
There is almost no incentive for gathering into guilds for some PvP goals.
Again PvE wise you have incentives because of raiding.
PvP wise, even if combat system and combat group mechanics in this game are awesome, you have zero content built around the combat system.
This is why PvP is dead in this game.

Well.. it's even incredible that it is not completely dead and there are still many players joining at least what we have - which is pretty much summed by 5 minigames maps and one random queque, the same for years.