Tank spec help

[bogus]

Kitting isn't tanking. It's not proper to call that next step to t1/2. And if anyone want to tank Monastery, then pysical mitigation will do better than protection. So I don't think kitting now and then is good enough reason to nerf yourself for t1/2. If you wish I can try kiting without protection items and using physical build (so one doesn't have improved CoI). But I'd not expecting causing any wipes because of it.

And when comes to actually tanking Vortex or Reliquary then no matter how gimp your protection is Iron Skin will always do better than Stone Skin. 200 armor to 100 protection isn't fair trade when can drop 100 armor, to get almost 300 protection by swapping armor ring to RoP.

Fun fact: before 2.0 and Khitai new tanks were crafting blue-steel armor set and getting RoP's for AB imp. It's less than 10G. There was no perks, no Black Dragon set and was possible to have over 50% protection. Magic!

I do not find legitimizing leechers right. And anyone who is not willing to spend 10G for prot set to be more useful is leecher.

Only one thing that could justify Stone Skin over Iron for new tanks is sticking just to KK runs while having always ranger to track for Spawn/Annihilator. But if you would go to random Yag, then only Iron Skin + Improved CoI + Hex + some blue-steel crafts to swap for. Otherwise Tetharos would rip gimp tank with prot spec apart.


Curse, I would also not agree with large pointless. Not with dt's in frenzy pulling off 2.5-3k dps on good positioned Zodiac animals. CoG is good tool, always. It allows guards use StA more often. And Conqs after last revamp are also good enough to hold with DT's using Gwahlur.

And you don’t think this was covered adequately when I said "its about aggro swapping smoothly as the need arises."

Nope, if I did, I'd not add anything there otherwise.

And we still post in t1/2 related topic.
- MT Kyllikki, Yakhmar, Yaremka, Sabazios, Ahazu, Succubus, AB, Levi do not require aggro swapping even if some need offtank for 2nd/3rd on aggro list or adds.
- GM, Succubus, Seruah, Vistrix prevent from solo tanking by using certain abilities, but Seruah was possible to solo tank. Unfortunately now with pathing issues is hard to position and keep here in one spot next to wall.
- Chatha after nerfs was possible to solo tank by experienced t1 geared DTs if they aren't gimp enough to not avoid Inferno. But again, thanks to Dreamworld engine, now it's hard to position him well next to wall. And that make using get DS to eat Chatha aggro dump ability and still avoid Inferno more than tricky.

And that last paragraph? I know DT is op. It doesn't change anythig. Believing on healt taps only isn't something you suggest to new tank. Especially when he may not have crit rating, VoM and other stuff that make DT shine.

you're a genius....

God bless your soul, you found enlightenment! I knew someone will find that soon or alter. Go and share it with others now

[Ruhenous]

Ruhenous build is also not one I would recommend to anyone interested in t1/2. Mainly because:
- Stone Skin instead Iron Skin – as mentioned already most T1-2 are physical fights

I agree with Stone Skin and Iron skin. But that's the joys of multiple feat specs. I think it's wise to have a protection spec and a physical spec, because some bosses in t1/t2 do a lot of magic damage. For examples: Kylikki, Imp boss in w3, Leviathus. So it's always nice to have a backup protection spec.

- no Goad – I know, depending too much on Goad isn't best tanking style, but not having save button isn't smartest thing also and it's only 1 point.

I've personally never been a big fan of Goad, but I understand it can be used to save a tank/DPS's life in an emergency. Guess I've been doing too much in-guild raiding/solo tanking Khitai for too long. :P

- Soul Infusion – with Eather Leech, Crystalized Ether and Ether Reap there is no way to run of mana. And there is not enough PvE fight which could make this feat usefull anyway.

Now, this is one I have a problem with, just because it's a fresh 80 DT. As a fresh 80, you're going to be losing mana A LOT faster than a geared DT, simpy because you're getting hit harder. The more gear you get, you can drop more of those feats for more DPS oriented feats.

- no Curse of Gwahlur – most fights are for solo tanking, and if there is something wannabe tank could learn in t1-2 is having best possible aggro. It's not achievable without CoG.

I've personally never been a fan of curse, not because it's ineffective, but because it generates a little bit too much aggro, especially if you're trying to tank with bad tanks and need them to pull off of you. Maybe I'm jaded against it? Quite possible.

Physical damage spec- http://goo.gl/FeOho
Magical damage spec- http://goo.gl/ZE2Gr

[Skant]

u can just disable CoG if ur with bad tanks and want easy switch. but not speccing CoG is a mistake imo.

[torinach]

Kitting isn't tanking. It's not proper to call that next step to t1/2. And if anyone want to tank Monastery, then pysical mitigation will do better than protection. So I don't think kitting now and then is good enough reason to nerf yourself for t1/2. If you wish I can try kiting without protection items and using physical build (so one doesn't have improved CoI). But I'd not expecting causing any wipes because of it.

I didnt say Kiting was tanking. I said that Vortex and Palace were entry level to K6 mans on Set and that most under geared tanks without AAs or with few AAs kite. Nothing about tanking being kiting there, perhaps go back and re-read it.

I also didnt say it was was the next step to T1/2, again thats you. I said entry level to Khitai.

This again is you re-interpreting incorrectly.

And when comes to actually tanking Vortex or Reliquary then no matter how gimp your protection is Iron Skin will always do better than Stone Skin. 200 armor to 100 protection isn't fair trade when can drop 100 armor, to get almost 300 protection by swapping armor ring to RoP.

Yeah you're right you can get better protection if you change to a protection suit. But in context we were talking about under geared tanks with few or no AAs. So gear swapping is a an irrelevant point, cause in this context they dont have it. Also if they dont have the AA's the crits from Khitai mobs are gonna hit hard, hence the crafted protection suit will have, at best, limited use. This is a superfluous argument.

Fun fact: before 2.0 and Khitai new tanks were crafting blue-steel armor set and getting RoP's for AB imp. It's less than 10G. There was no perks, no Black Dragon set and was possible to have over 50% protection. Magic!

I do not find legitimizing leechers right. And anyone who is not willing to spend 10G for prot set to be more useful is leecher.

Fun Fact old world mobs DONT crit, Khitai mobs DO crit. if you dont have gear with critigation or the perks to give you critigation chance and percentage, it's gonna be difficult to tank anything. Thats why most people try to get at least Khitai blues asap. So again your arguments about old world gear are largely irrelevant.

Only one thing that could justify Stone Skin over Iron for new tanks is sticking just to KK runs while having always ranger to track for Spawn/Annihilator. But if you would go to random Yag, then only Iron Skin + Improved CoI + Hex + some blue-steel crafts to swap for. Otherwise Tetharos would rip gimp tank with prot spec apart.

Again you seem to have the impression that I said that physical mitigation is unimportant. I didn't, I said its not the be all and end all. There's quite a large difference between saying that and saying that physical mitigation isnt needed, which is what you're suggesting I said.

Curse, I would also not agree with large pointless. Not with dt's in frenzy pulling off 2.5-3k dps on good positioned Zodiac animals. CoG is good tool, always. It allows guards use StA more often. And Conqs after last revamp are also good enough to hold with DT's using Gwahlur.

I disagree. If a Dt is doing that much DPS, they simply dont need it especially if they are tanking T4 in frenzy. If they arent tanking and they are in frenzy in order to DPS(which is suspect is probably the case, but I could be wrong) then they wont be using CoG anyway cause they're DPSing and they wont want to pull agro.

Nope, if I did, I'd not add anything there otherwise.

Then I suggest that you L2English.

And we still post in t1/2 related topic.
- MT Kyllikki, Yakhmar, Yaremka, Sabazios, Ahazu, Succubus, AB, Levi do not require aggro swapping even if some need offtank for 2nd/3rd on aggro list or adds.
- GM, Succubus, Seruah, Vistrix prevent from solo tanking by using certain abilities, but Seruah was possible to solo tank. Unfortunately now with pathing issues is hard to position and keep here in one spot next to wall.
- Chatha after nerfs was possible to solo tank by experienced t1 geared DTs if they aren't gimp enough to not avoid Inferno. But again, thanks to Dreamworld engine, now it's hard to position him well next to wall. And that make using get DS to eat Chatha aggro dump ability and still avoid Inferno more than tricky.

Wonkwonkwonk Charlie Browns fricken teacher, is there a point to this other than to list the obvious? This however still doesnt show that CoG is a necessary feat.

And that last paragraph? I know DT is op. It doesn't change anythig. Believing on healt taps only isn't something you suggest to new tank. Especially when he may not have crit rating, VoM and other stuff that make DT shine.

If you'd read the last last quote immediately before the last paragraph, you might have seen that the last paragraph was directed at you. That's kind the point of placing a quote before text, to show that your answering something the other person said.

So again random misinterpretation, you're really not very good at this are you?

God bless your soul, you found enlightenment! I knew someone will find that soon or alter. Go and share it with others now

Why to you think Im pointing out that you have so many glaringly obvious flaws? Im sharing my enlightenment ;D

[torinach]

u can just disable CoG if ur with bad tanks and want easy switch. but not speccing CoG is a mistake imo.

Absolutely you can Skant. And there are times when it's probably useful situationally. What I disagree with is Bogus' argument that CoG is a necessity for DTs to be able to tank effectively.

[TeamVernia]

CoG is not my fav. Not a fan of retributive hate buffs like this and StA. It just makes aggro swapping tough. If you plan on solo tanking, though, it can serve a purpose.

[Macduff]

Here is a spec that might work for an up and coming Dark Templar tank:
http://goo.gl/yPkvl

But more important than a spec is getting the correct gear and playstyle that would work with your spec/group/encounter. As a DT current game kind of dictates you to get Void of Madness Golden AA perk and try to equip crit rating gear. VOM provides amazing buffs that scale great the more crit chance you have. Since you also lack aggro tools on short cool downs, you have to be able to make up for it using your dps. Better dps is hard to achieve immediately on a DT since it is a bit AA/gear dependant but in the end it will give you better aggro and better survivability (through taps).

Basically, make sure your buffs are active at all times (pact of malacor, hp tap buff, auras) go for Cov. of Arms for almost all encounters. Burst magical damages you can avoid using hex marked soul and if you're given the task of a hard hitting magical boss (like the imp tanking in w3) you can swtich to Cov. of Invulnerability along with switching for a few blue crafted gemmed protection pieces (like protection rings/necklaces). Try to learn the mechanics of the encounters and use your shadow wisely and you can solo tank almost all t1-t2 bosses along with many entry level khitai dungeons.

edit: If you are not tasked with tanking magical hitting bosses you can skip points in cov. of invulnerability all together and get dark hand (which works very nice as a heal too if you use it while blood pact is running): http://goo.gl/Rr9g1


P.S. Bogus is one of the best players I've seen in this game on any class so anything he says I wholeheartedly agree and I advise any new players to do so as well.

[Mantic0r3]

alot of you guys neglect "drain strength", i find it pretty usefull so could you explain your reasoning?

[bogus]

torinach, what's really your purpose here? Beside quoting every single sentence trying to look for something I've never put there. I might done same mistake tho, let me be fair. I don't think our opinin differs so much as this little forum fight would show.

We miss whole point when focusing on single sentences. And that won't help anyone.

First thing you said referring to me

Isn't this enough reason to give a spec that would cope with T1-2 and entry level K6 mans?

when I was not agreeing with putting any points to Stone Skin because I find that wrong for t1/2. Or what was that about?

I'll stick to saying - Stone Skin over Iron Skin can't be better choice for starters. It's not possible. Period.

Most damage from bosses in this game is physical. That is a fact. So no matter if they do t1/2 or entry khitai level, t1/2 should do better for fresh toon. Protection can be covered by cheap crafted gear. To get armor epics or blue dungeons drops are needed, and those can't be obtained without some tanking (or leeching) first. When starting getting some epics there would be reason to replace Iron with Stone skin if you wouldn't get wards same time. So for _overall_ purposes, armor will do better anyway. We both agree at some point doesn't matter how DT spend their feats in general. Health taps cover everything.

And I don't try to put in your mouth opinion about armor being not important. All I do is saying Stone Skin feat for fresh soldiers are expendable unless they stick to KK run with tracked Yag only.

Yeah you're right you can get better protection if you change to a protection suit. But in context we were talking about under geared tanks with few or no AAs. So gear swapping is a an irrelevant point, cause in this context they dont have it.

Why? Why makes spending 10G hard? Or asking crafter from guild to make something for you? They'd probably give anyone who ask 2 rops and blue-steel set for free.

When I was leveling alt soldiers, I had no problem with spending 150G for stoneheart set. And to get that I had to dig in Potain few days. What makes new soldiers not able to spend 10G those days? (Or even 20G if that better fits prices on Set). It's just 4(8)h solo questing in Khaitai.

So let me stick to opinion, that leeching do not justify removing armor from build to get some protection.

Fun Fact old world mobs DONT crit, Khitai mobs DO crit.

I can assure you I was surprised also when I saw big red "critically hit for 4xxx damage" on my screen. But Gargoyle Master can crit. I do know how FC managed to do that, but he crits now. At least he did last year when I was there last time. Sadly I don't have all logs from last 4 years anymore. But after weekend I may find few hours to join some w1 pugs to give you proof if you wish.

If a Dt is doing that much DPS, they simply dont need it especially if they are tanking T4 in frenzy.

Nope, I'm not saying frenzy DT is tanking Zoo animals for us. All I'm saying - as DT who tanks Zoo I'll need CoG to outaggro other DTs who with only -1.8% hate pull off up to 3k dps in frenzy there. Call me nab, I've never aspired to have best aggro with my DT and with spec I use my max is 1.5-1.7k dps at Zodiac. That with 12% hate is not enough to hold of 3k dps from dpsing DT if they get some nasty burst with lucky crit's at some point.

Wonkwonkwonk Charlie Browns fricken teacher, is there a point to this other than to list the obvious? This however still doesnt show that CoG is a necessary feat.

CoG increases aggro. That's fact we both agreed with.
To get _best_ possible aggro you want it. That also should leave space for misinterpretation.
And tanking almost everything below t3 is about solo tanking what you knew and I've listed.
So to get best possible results you want use it.
Yes. I agree, DT may not need it when passing some dps level.
But it always increases aggro while solo tanking. And's cheap. And there is not really much other feats you could spend that point instead. So that's why I'll don't find skipping it right.

You need me forgive not quoting and answering things I'm agree with or this cheap L2English attack.

[torinach]

torinach, what's really your purpose here? Beside quoting every single sentence trying to look for something I've never put there. I might done same mistake tho, let me be fair. I don't think our opinin differs so much as this little forum fight would show.

My purpose, Bogus, was to give a different perspective. My reason is I disagree with your insistence that CoG and physical mitigation are all important to a DT.

As Ive repeated said physical mitigation IS important but its not the be all and end all.

So I've given my opinion and you've given yours. This is getting boring, Im sure other people are finding it the same. So I dont intend to continue arguing the same points ad infinitum, so Im not going to continue this further.

To be clear, I still disagree with you. but I've better things to do.