Update tomorrow? Saga?

[Jota180]

You are right of course. But pre.WB and -RF you were not forced to play with them if you did not want to. If you met a 123-tortage-combo/cast-whitehitter back then in a raid or group you were able to teach him, drag him to voice com, many beginner guilds got members that way. We all have our stories of very wise barbs, 1 2 3 hitting conqs, even 1 2 3 hitting demos! The difference today is that you HAVE to play with those people, that your time and gamingexperience can be highly influenced by the, You can no longer choose to teach a newbie, you can not kick them if they do not listen or answer.
Of course it is also true that the kind of "no chat.no voice com, no listening, not aswering"-player nowadays actually has content that keeps him in the game. In the past this people just quit after reaching 80, or leveled happily one class after the other, without ever caring about group content, like a single player game.
But now we all meet this people in rf and at the wb. Maybe they learn how to use the chat, and that way they come in real raids and content. Unfortunatly this raids often are T3 and higher (because they have T4 gear, no need for T1 and 2^^), where you need to know at least a little bit about your class and game mechanics. Or they try right away to get into T5 and T6 raids...but this is a completly differerent toppic.

Yeah there's a lot of truth in what you say, I'd just add the falling server population means that perhaps they're more concentrated nowadays. New players do have an easy route to Tier 4 and 5 gear which doesn't make them better players. The only way to make them better is for them to join a guild and the guild help them with builds, rotations, taking them through dungeons and lower tier raids.

[zujilin]

I need to be honest right now:
If people play the game until level 80 with only white hits without even noticing the other hundrets of combos and spells they get then they are seriously not involved into the game. You can't tell me that people do not notice all the small symbols that keep popping up in their hotbars after every level up, that's just impossible.
Don't get me started about the messages that tell you that you can spend feat /ability points.

The problem is not that people do only white hits because they ignore "small symbles that popping up".
We are not talking of tards.
I have checked some rotation in RF the problem is that they use what the game suggest.
Example of barbarian combo progression:
Sweep; slam; stunning punch 1; cunning strikes 1; cunning strikes 2 (only upgrade if u have 1 in bar); butcher 1 (grey if u not use 2h); vicius strikes; cyclone of steel 1 (grey if u not use 2w); cunning strikes 3; cunning strikes 4; clobber 1 (grey if u not use 2h); wreck armor 1 (grey if u not use 2w). At this point your bar is full if you not fix it and you receive only upgrade of what is in bar. You have to know what is better and what not and that you can use multiple version of some combo.
Players in RF do a lot of White hits because they have bar full of bad and unusefull combo, With low dps and long CD for this they are not able to perform one rotation and they have to fill the long CD with a lot of white hits (most btw use mouse for the combo).
I remember when i was noob on my first toon and aoc my first MMO. I have fixed my bar at level 55-60 (but i was smart enough, At least, to remove the grey) i say it without shy, but only reading forum and asking in NPH. But you need be interessed for do this. you have to look for a confrontation without being afraid of being mocked, and from a global one, both help and mock have come.
this is not done by the RF players who know that you are forced to carry on your shoulders without being able to do anything but complain about it on forum.

[xCodename]

The problem is not that people do only white hits because they ignore "small symbles that popping up".
We are not talking of tards.
I have checked some rotation in RF the problem is that they use what the game suggest.
Example of barbarian combo progression:
Sweep; slam; stunning punch 1; cunning strikes 1; cunning strikes 2 (only upgrade if u have 1 in bar); butcher 1 (grey if u not use 2h); vicius strikes; cyclone of steel 1 (grey if u not use 2w); cunning strikes 3; cunning strikes 4; clobber 1 (grey if u not use 2h); wreck armor 1 (grey if u not use 2w). At this point your bar is full if you not fix it and you receive only upgrade of what is in bar. You have to know what is better and what not and that you can use multiple version of some combo.
Players in RF do a lot of White hits because they have bar full of bad and unusefull combo, With low dps and long CD for this they are not able to perform one rotation and they have to fill the long CD with a lot of white hits (most btw use mouse for the combo).
I remember when i was noob on my first toon and aoc my first MMO. I have fixed my bar at level 55-60 (but i was smart enough, At least, to remove the grey) i say it without shy, but only reading forum and asking in NPH. But you need be interessed for do this. you have to look for a confrontation without being afraid of being mocked, and from a global one, both help and mock have come.
this is not done by the RF players who know that you are forced to carry on your shoulders without being able to do anything but complain about it on forum.

First of all:
Yeah, there are people who just use bad combos, bad rotations (DTs never using leech combos ever) but there are also the people who literally ONLY do white hits. I observed a lot of them already, the whole raid long, only doing white hits without any combo at all (or special Necros that let only their pets attack without using spells themself).
I have no problem with explaining rotations, combos and stuff like that to anyone, I like giving advices, I teached a lot of people the Slithering Chaos because "recently" (well, last big thing I did in AoC when I was farming it almost 1 year ago) I wanted the rings from there (but it took like 3 months to finally get 2 rings with fitting gems).
BUT:
The problem is: The same people who have no clue about their character are the same ones that tell you to "STFU" or "**** off" once you tell them that they could use some advice about how to play the class "correctly" (I know, there is a lot of variations in terms of playstyle but still, a player only using white it's is simply not playing the character the right, that way every class would be the same) or how to be more useful to the raid (telling healers to use their burst heal, green heal or blue heal AT ALL since a lot of them seem to not know about these spells) to actually perform their classes job.
And don't get me started over talking about raid mechanics, a lot of them say "I don't care" if you try to explain that they spread Miasma or Blood Draw which is wiping the raid.

I never said I wasn't a noob, I played AoC like a single player game for almost 2 and a half years because I simply was afraid to go to raids / groups dungeons and **** up everything there. When I found a guild where people teached me how to do all the mechanics in a group dungeon I was glad they did that and I did not insult them for being "elitist" like people nowdays like to do it. I knew I was doing errors and if they told me what I did wrong I tried to improve.

In the first few weeks of AoC I did not understand what certain spells / abilities are either (since it was the first MMO for me, I didn't even know what Teamspeak was until then) but if you care just a little bit you start to read what the descriptions of combos, spells, feats, abilities and so on try to tell you (yeah I know, AoC got sometimes very inaccurate or misleading descriptions for certain things). If you play a game and don't even care to click on things called "Feats and Abilities" or "Combo Attacks and Spells" then something went totally wrong, I mean, they still were able to sign up for the Raidfinder, how were they able to find out how to do that? The answer is simple: By clicking on icons and trying out what to do. If you invest just a little bit more thought into the game you will easily find out that there are several other combo attacks or spells, there really is no excuse when it comes to clicking on the UI symbols. Having a "perfect" build is something completely different, those things wont be achieved in a few days of playing but finding out that there is more than the combos you have been using since you started playing should be possible.

[Jota180]

First of all:
Yeah, there are people who just use bad combos, bad rotations (DTs never using leech combos ever) but there are also the people who literally ONLY do white hits. I observed a lot of them already, the whole raid long, only doing white hits without any combo at all (or special Necros that let only their pets attack without using spells themself).
I have no problem with explaining rotations, combos and stuff like that to anyone, I like giving advices, I teached a lot of people the Slithering Chaos because "recently" (well, last big thing I did in AoC when I was farming it almost 1 year ago) I wanted the rings from there (but it took like 3 months to finally get 2 rings with fitting gems).
BUT:
The problem is: The same people who have no clue about their character are the same ones that tell you to "STFU" or "**** off" once you tell them that they could use some advice about how to play the class "correctly" (I know, there is a lot of variations in terms of playstyle but still, a player only using white it's is simply not playing the character the right, that way every class would be the same) or how to be more useful to the raid (telling healers to use their burst heal, green heal or blue heal AT ALL since a lot of them seem to not know about these spells) to actually perform their classes job.
And don't get me started over talking about raid mechanics, a lot of them say "I don't care" if you try to explain that they spread Miasma or Blood Draw which is wiping the raid.

I never said I wasn't a noob, I played AoC like a single player game for almost 2 and a half years because I simply was afraid to go to raids / groups dungeons and **** up everything there. When I found a guild where people teached me how to do all the mechanics in a group dungeon I was glad they did that and I did not insult them for being "elitist" like people nowdays like to do it. I knew I was doing errors and if they told me what I did wrong I tried to improve.

In the first few weeks of AoC I did not understand what certain spells / abilities are either (since it was the first MMO for me, I didn't even know what Teamspeak was until then) but if you care just a little bit you start to read what the descriptions of combos, spells, feats, abilities and so on try to tell you (yeah I know, AoC got sometimes very inaccurate or misleading descriptions for certain things). If you play a game and don't even care to click on things called "Feats and Abilities" or "Combo Attacks and Spells" then something went totally wrong, I mean, they still were able to sign up for the Raidfinder, how were they able to find out how to do that? The answer is simple: By clicking on icons and trying out what to do. If you invest just a little bit more thought into the game you will easily find out that there are several other combo attacks or spells, there really is no excuse when it comes to clicking on the UI symbols. Having a "perfect" build is something completely different, those things wont be achieved in a few days of playing but finding out that there is more than the combos you have been using since you started playing should be possible.

I think what you might be seeing in RF is leeches who set up a basic macro to spam the 1, 2 or 3 button. They park their toon next to the boss and hit the macro so it looks like they're doing something, meanwhile they recline back in their chair and browse their phones.

[zujilin]

I think what you might be seeing in RF is leeches who set up a basic macro to spam the 1, 2 or 3 button. They park their toon next to the boss and hit the macro so it looks like they're doing something, meanwhile they recline back in their chair and browse their phones.

I also think this is a simple alternative way not to show too clearly that he is afk, use any macro 1,2,3.
I have seen atrocities in aoc, players really incapable, but players who do not even try once to click the colored doodles that appear magically in their bars when they rise level up, is too much to believe for me too. But if I'm wrong, humanity is doomed!

[Blasphemer]

I also think this is a simple alternative way not to show too clearly that he is afk, use any macro 1,2,3.
I have seen atrocities in aoc, players really incapable, but players who do not even try once to click the colored doodles that appear magically in their bars when they rise level up, is too much to believe for me too. But if I'm wrong, humanity is doomed!

I have a guy in my guild that is AFKing through RF on all toons (plenty) every week. So those Edit by Anzu: people will suffice. does excist sadly.