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Thread: Unleash the bear shaman

  1. #1

    Default Unleash the bear shaman

    Since i m really bored atm I decided to make this post. As the title says maybe its time to unleash the BS and take down the urban legend of BS being the beast people think!!

    BS is probably my favorite class and I m half decent on it but still i get really frustrated when I see it played to perfection (not by me) stil not being rewarding due to outdated features and pathetic low dps!!! Both other healers are better at everything

    PVE: There is practically one specc you can use the entire game (max dps) with a retarded rotation of 3 combos. The result is lame as all other meeles (except SnS guard, can outdps you). In comparison with the other 2 healers you are not even close. As tos will outheal and outdps the entire raid, with pom coming 2nd but close.

    PVP:

    Duels:Its the only thing that BS shines (not that its the best class for it, Tos is better at it for sure). Bs has tool vs all classes but the fact is that without SF its just weak.

    Group pvp: Now here is the fun part, Pugs say nothing as its pure luck. But premades do, and i mean the balanced ones. BS can be locked in combat for 20min and still never get a single kill!!! on top of that it gets focused and will die..I have seen full aa/overgeared/top players go negative again and again on the other hand Tos or Pom support their team better (CCs, shields, dps) and can even top kills

    I m sick of waiting for the stars to align for a critical hit combo to get a kill. Why the f..k dont we have some aoe dps??? Every simiral feature with pom and tos are tuned down. AAs are just a joke and take ages to get them. To be continued.. with changes needed

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasylyos View Post
    PVE: There is practically one specc you can use the entire game (max dps) with a retarded rotation of 3 combos. The result is lame as all other meeles (except SnS guard, can outdps you). In comparison with the other 2 healers you are not even close. As tos will outheal and outdps the entire raid, with pom coming 2nd but close.
    Fully agree that the new rotation introduced by the last revamp is boring and that PvE dps is still too low compared to other classes. Re healing: the only reason a ToS will outheal a BS is blue-heal spamming for dps. So this is really more damage-related than indicative of higher healing potential.

    I will leave the pvp comments to more qualified players.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  3. #3

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    it would be justified to give BS some more armor and protection since its the only healer that is melee. also tos have more prot and pom have more armor than bs, it just aint fair as it is now i agree.
    Last edited by Tyyr; 4th January 2017 at 12:37.
    Raised in Kheshatta.

  4. #4

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    If i remember correctly they lowered protection on BS PVP Gear with the pvp gear revamp on purpose. Doubt they'll revert it.

  5. #5

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    As I have said many years ago, FC keeps developing BS on the wrong basis. BS is a hybrid healer therefore all gear should be mixed str/wisdom as priority features.

    Still this isnt fixed and BS has the lamest gear in game (always lower crit rating in comparison). Its known that mix of barbarian/BS gear benefits the bs better than it is now, if you can manage mana. FC doesnt care and wont fix any issues so I ll move on.

    Feat trees are very limiting, lets see:

    PVE:
    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v18_11d...ae943bbdc3b7f4

    I never needed any other build, rupture i have only feated in case i missclick a CA combo (get the sarcasm?)

    PVP:

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v18_11d...ae943bbdc3b7f4

    This is for me the worse part as you need 35 points to get rampage. All worth playing builds are based on these 35 points (you can move 2 points from rampaging crush to winter's bite). Rampage is just too good to miss for a class with dps problems. This leaves us with 3 options

    IH build: I still dont know why most players say this build will give you more survivability as IH triggers too slowly + you can be CCed and die 6sec later. Also you have missed almost all dps features and probably if you didnt heal the group people could (I would) ignore you.

    Mutilation: Never preferred it, some BS can make it work but still vs any proper group having so much limited CCs and antiCC you are an easy target

    BR build: The better BS I have seen in game go for it, its my personal preference. Imo you provide better with your spirit debuffs and BR than mutilation

    Class AA: ToS having the best AA ingame (the only legit CC-lock still existing), PoM mediocre ones now that light the path got nerfed leaving BS far behind with

    FG:Slowass combo, pick it if you like it
    Maul: Superfast combo doing **** dmg but really good CC
    UB: I dont think i could play without it
    VoS: Best used in PVE

    Ways to Fix BS without making it OP:

    1) All manifestations should procc aoe dmg depending on type (unholy ,poison, fire, frost etc). No huge numbers but something logical
    2) Bs stun should be featured 6sec, not 4,5 with a better innate range
    3) Make IB4 animation same as IB2, almost every bs ingame uses IB2. It a key combo for our gameplay
    4) Move Rampage somewhere else so we can play with our builds,even partially feature mutilation with other end features
    5) Bewilder needs way faster animation
    6) Fix IH, another idea would be to make procc Ursine bond also
    7) Poison Hide feated should have dmg proccing on BS hitting and not taking hits (this could make it usefull in PVE too)
    8) Grace of nature should have a faster cast, like 0,5sec
    9) Deft renewal is useless as it is, making a passive resistance to stun 5% for each point (ToS and PoM passive immunities too)

    Maybe more things could done but these are the first that come to mind.
    Last edited by Vasylyos; 4th January 2017 at 13:29.

  6. #6

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    also would be nice to make rampage more reliable. like make it up to 60% weapon dmg but let the stacks build up over time during fighting and dont make em dissapear like they do now.
    Raised in Kheshatta.

  7. #7

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    I've played most of the melee classes in aoc in pvp and this is my experience with each of them. Grab some popcorn if you like. Here comes a wall of text with the story of my life in aoc.

    barb: First pvp char ever I've had in aoc was my female barb Wheya. I've started aoc in 2008 but quit pretty early. Didn't reach 80, didn't do lots of pvp on pvp server. I returned a while after rotg was released, reached 80, started minis in a mix of blue and green gear and didn't care at all of being killed. Results like 0:15, 2:20 etc was the norm. Eve online was still my favoured mmo and compared to eve a death in aoc was just a joke to me. I could't take aoc pvp as serious but I had fun regardless of all those sins and rangers who just tried out their new abilities after that ranger/sin revamp in northern grasslands on my undergeared barb.
    In the end I had 5500 more deaths than kills on my counter with Wheya but I have learned and I got my searing sword (never did raids to get better weapons on all of my chars) and results became better. Things changed when I joined a guild with (strong) bk bonus. I learned about comboskipping. I created a new male barb and I was very lucky to have Chigo in my guild who showed me not only to skip butcher 4 which I already did but every stun and clobber, sprint circle strafing etc. No need to say my male barb had a much better kd than Wheya. The most important lesson I've learned was: there are people who are just soo much better than me, no matter how hard I try, I will not reach that level but I can come a little bit closer which is sufficient to become better than the average player. So my advice to every player no matter what class he is playing. Never give up, if you are willing to learn and to practice it will get better.
    After a server merge we had free transfers and Asgard server became more and more empty so I transferred my shitty female barb Wheya to crom to test the waters. Our guild leader Khearax (best bs I've ever seen, sorry Size and co) tried to negotiate a merge with Coe when our whole guild would transfer from asgard to crom but that never happened. Alltogether I've had and still have 5 barbs: 2 level 80, one for 39 bracket, one for 59 bracket, one for leveling together with friend who rarely played.
    Patch 3.0 was the beginning of the end of my barb career and I stopped playing aoc for several months. I didn't liked to use those long animation butcher combos so I switched to reaver. Wheya still my only char on crom managed to get a positive kd after a very long grind and when that happened I stopped playing barb. That reaver playstyle: activate all buffs and 2-3 shot enemies after kb was too cheesy. I also never used decap in any of my builds.
    Meanwhile I have all chars on crom and once every 1-2 years or so I subscribe for 1 month and play one or two minis with my main male barb but compared to pre 3.0 barb is no longer the class I enjoy that much to play anymore. Still powerful but if you had something fun in the past and have to deal with the current barb status, meh.

    DT: my dt was my very first char ever in aoc. While playing my male barb on asgard server I also started to play pvp with my dt. Dt was lots of fun but after server moved to usa I had problems to kill good players because of latency and probably lack of skill. My Dt became more or less a noob only killer. Still good enough to get a pretty good positive kd but I hated the fact that good players could kite and kill me, making me look stupid.

    sin: I don't like to play this class. If I killed someone it felt like cheating, no satisfaction at all for me. If I died I died too easily because I didn't see it coming that a ranger pops out of stealth and 2 shotting me while I was fighting someone else. In the end it's pretty easy to get a positive kd with sin but it's not a class I enjoy to play.

    Guardian: easy chill mode. This is the first class I would recomment to a new player to get a first glimpse about what pvp is like in aoc. Easy to get a good kd but hard to make an impact on the end result of the mini. Perfect class for a first sightseeing tour in aoc pvp.

    Conq: here it's getting interesting. Unlike (zerker) barb you can use combos with short animations and this with way better mitigation and bubbles on top of that. How good is that? On a side note: I don't like the vast majority of carnage conqs I see today in minis. Playing carnage and never taking flag is just one step below playing ranger/demo/necro.

    ranger: It happens again and again. After a certain point I get so angry about this retard class that I say to myself: if you can't beat them, join them. It always ended with deleting that boring class before leaving tortage. Several times.

    hox: this is the only melee class I've never played in pvp. I already can judge just by doing some pve that I won't enjoy playing this class in pvp. By no means this means hox is a weak class but I just dislike how squishy that class is (ranger) and those combos... I just don't get it. I feel I am doing it wrong.

    demo: after seeing that special keyboard turning no skill at all demo who just reached pvp 10 being number 1 in kills in JS with just 1 or 2 deaths I had to try it myself. Created demo, grinded some low levels, used offline levels to get to 80. Started first mini in a mix of blue and green and before I reached pvp 4 I already had a positive kd and this with just knowing the very basics of that class. Never touched my demo again after reaching a positive kd.

    bear shaman: now this is a fine class. From all the classes I've played and mentioned before, this is by far the most challenging class to play and I doubt this will be different if I would also play necro, pom, tos. Almost every time I die in a mini I say to myself: I shouldn't have pushed in that situation, I should have used rune of grounding, I might have survived if I used stone hide etc. Very often I can say it was my mistake that I died. Bear shaman is so much micromanagement beside the combos while other melees just have to do combos. Very often it can become too much micromanagement to handle but it's not always my inability to use the bs to its full potential. In the end I must admit compared to all the other classes, the bs is indeed an underpowered class but is this a bad thing?

    I see it like this: Imagine I play a single player game with 5 difficulty levels from very easy, easy, normal, hard, very hard. Which one would I choose?

    very easy like: ranger, necro, demo
    or
    very hard like bs, hox
    or
    something inbetween those extreme levels

    I like it that the option very hard is available.

    However I wouln't mind if there would be some restrictions to activate those very easy classes in pvp. I mean it's ok if someone is playing ranger when he has lost his right arm in a car accident and it's ok if someone is playing ranger after he has proven again and again that he sucks on every other class. For this reason aoc needs a ranger class like it is. But those players who are no longer keyboard turners still playing rangers? Well, they have chosen not only easy mode, they have chosen to play in god mode and this behaviour I call bad RL character. (sorry, for going off topic. Too hard for me to post without a ranger rant)

  8. #8

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    Wheya I can see your point, being a veteran myself i have played most classes in PvP (no Ranger or Tos) but still i want the fullfilment you get when your toon made a difference in structured PVP. I ll give you an example, lets say the best ToS ingamejoins a premade, his score will be like 15-4, or 22-14, you pick the numbers...he had his adrenaline, he had his kills, he contributed to his team winning. Now lets say the best BS in game is in his place. If the premade is balanced he with all probability WONT kill,dps,CC that much and overall define the winner. I have never seen a BS get ToS numbers. In the end his team would hope for a pom+tos setup cause no matter the skill bs is limited too much by definition. All i m asking for is an equal spot.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasylyos View Post
    Wheya I can see your point, being a veteran myself i have played most classes in PvP (no Ranger or Tos) but still i want the fullfilment you get when your toon made a difference in structured PVP. I ll give you an example, lets say the best ToS ingamejoins a premade, his score will be like 15-4, or 22-14, you pick the numbers...he had his adrenaline, he had his kills, he contributed to his team winning. Now lets say the best BS in game is in his place. If the premade is balanced he with all probability WONT kill,dps,CC that much and overall define the winner. I have never seen a BS get ToS numbers. In the end his team would hope for a pom+tos setup cause no matter the skill bs is limited too much by definition. All i m asking for is an equal spot.
    Fair point but you have to account for the fact that ToSes also have a higher risk of getting a really poor score. I am not just talking PUGs. Looking at recent premade results which have been posted here, ToSes got negative scores in the majority of cases. And when you look back to Korando's tournament, here's a wise comment why ToS may not always be the healer of choice:

    Quote Originally Posted by Norther View Post
    It was expected, cuz of many small nuances i won't be talking about. Biggest of them was that there is zero point in tos without pushers department (melees)
    But I'm not good or experienced enough to offer any real insight. Hoping for Lurvi to step in since he is pro on both classes
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  10. #10

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    Vasylyos, fair point the way you compare tos with bs but it is very similar if you compare f.e. guardian with conq. Both classes can get good kd but it is a lot harder to change the outcome of a mini with a guardian than it is with a conq. Guardian might be better at holding the flag which can have its value but overall the conq is the bigger thread on the battlefield compared to guardian.

    I have no doubt that bs is an underpowered class. Would it be fair to give bs a boost? Yes, no doubt. Is it the right thing to make all classes equal in power? I don't think so. I certainly would quit playing aoc if all classes would be on ranger level. On the other hand I already explained why we need a class like the ranger. So I can get along the current balance situation when I think they are different difficulty levels. If bs is too hard for me, I will stop playing bs and start playing something easier.

    edit: I know how frustrating it can be when you have a really hard and balanced mini and you fight 20min with full adrenaline rush and see all those opponents dieing in front of you and you die yourself and in the end you see all kill credits go to your necro while you get of the mini with a 1:6 score.
    Last edited by Wheya; 4th January 2017 at 16:40.

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