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Thread: Guardian hate discussion

  1. #31

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    I trough that when they removed the taunt skill they just removed it entirely?

    I like to think of combos/abilities that do additional or huge additional hate as having like an additional hit that scales exponentially with your hate increase, at least this makes the most sense to me when it comes to guardians

    for example a base of 600 hate on irritate with 15% hate increase would be 600^1.15 = 1566 hate generated. and with 20% hate increase it would be 2156 hate generated

    or an example of shield slam on a guardian with 20% hate and 800 base + 750 combo damage

    (5% bonus on shield slam)
    (800^1.25) + (750*1.25) = 5191 total hate

    but its just a wild guess

  2. #32

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    gonna ask one thing first,
    wasn't there a FC post saying agrotools was not affected by hate? maybe it was quoted already here, but too lazy to search right now.

    onto your theory tumulten, I don't think it's far-fetched.

    but, where does that put hateful strikes?

    say shield slam 800, and the guard has 20% innate + hateful strikes, excluding cry of havoc+irritate here:

    (added the 5% bonus you mentioned aswell, don't where you get it from)
    800^1.45 = ~16200 agro

    without hateful strikes:

    800^1.25 = 4250 agro

    with shield slams cooldown, it would be around 400 agro per second.

    you can easily test this, since we have hateful strikes. maybe if you're gonna test it, leave irritate out, cause I think that has a component that decays? or is it just messing with the 10% threshold for agrochange?

    btw, what is the max hate of a conq?
    Last edited by Lurvi; 3rd December 2016 at 07:25.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tumulten View Post

    I like to think of combos/abilities that do additional or huge additional hate as having like an additional hit that scales exponentially with your hate increase, at least this makes the most sense to me when it comes to guardians

    for example a base of 600 hate on irritate with 15% hate increase would be 600^1.15 = 1566 hate generated. and with 20% hate increase it would be 2156 hate generated
    Me and Redartin have tested this. I was pulling a mob by irritating it, with the lowest hate I could, he then whitehitted the mob untill he got it, we did this around 5 times and took the median of those results. Then compared it with the median of 5 pulls with maxed out hate. It was exactly the same results. We did this with CoH aswell.

    Im pretty sure


    Aggro-tools have fixed numbers that cant be modified by hate%. If I remember correctly 80% of Irritates threat is perma, but 20% decays over time.


    Combos have two aggro components only

    -> Innate hate. A chunk of threat that applies on the last hit of the combofinisher that varies from combo to combo. Shieldslam being the best at this. (innate hate cant be modified by hate% either).
    -> The dps of the combo (The only thing that can be modified by hate%)
    Last edited by magnum92; 3rd December 2016 at 10:06.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurvi View Post
    btw, what is the max hate of a conq?
    In terms of what? Just base hate? Max you can get just by doing combos with the 10x will of mettle + technique (which is lower aggro than using will of onslaught)? Adding in feats I personally found to be a waste of points, hateful strikes/BOA?

    You can get a lot more hate than what I ran with, but it's not actually productive.

    Standing around doing nothing, I have 21.4% Doing combos, 28.5% (I top out here unless I need will of mettle), the additions of will of mettle (10%), boa (10%) and hateful strikes (20%) add 40% if they're all up at once so, 68.5%. Stacking items I never used or didn't have totals to an increase of 126 hate or around 3.4%, so add that to these values for the max hate a conq can have but, they're just numbers, doesn't translate to better aggro because you lose a lot of dps.
    Last edited by Evito; 3rd December 2016 at 10:08.
    EvitoQQ @ YouTube
    THE IVORY TOWER - QQ - Schlenkerla/Hersch

  5. #35

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    no, just to bust tumulten theory. hateful strikes in only 20% I think, but say conq max at 80%

    if irritate had 600:
    600^1.80 = 100k agro, which is just nope.

    plus the testing mori and red did already did bust it.
    Last edited by Lurvi; 3rd December 2016 at 09:49.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurvi View Post
    no, just to bust tumulten theory. hateful strikes in only 20% I think, but say conq max at 80%

    if irritate had 600:
    600^1.80 = 100k agro, which is just nope.

    plus the testing mori and red did already did bust it.
    Yep you're right, I fixed it now, BOA is 10% and Hateful Strikes is 20%.

    But yeah, between that testing and actually playing a conq and the anecdotal evidence of playing with weapon damage vs hate, that theory is a bust.
    Last edited by Evito; 3rd December 2016 at 10:24.
    EvitoQQ @ YouTube
    THE IVORY TOWER - QQ - Schlenkerla/Hersch

  7. #37

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    I think just a bit of napkin math will put to rest the exponential function suggested.

    I think with all the buffs you can find running plus sins cover of dusk you can crack 100% hate (and then some)

    Conq, 1000 DPS for one second @ 100% hate:

    1000 ^ 2 = 1,000,000 "hate"

    DT, 2000 DPS for one second @ 10% hate:

    2000 ^ 1.1 = 4,276.94 "hate"

    1,000,000 / 4,276.94 = 233.81

    So in that one second of Conq burst hate the DT would have to do 233 seconds of continual 2k DPS @ 10% hate, or roughly 4 minutes of DPS for the Conqs 1 second.

    Honestly I think the system is so arcane and clouded now that it's quite possibly a mystery to even the Devs. Or Dev, if they even have that now.

  8. #38

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    he was saying to agrotools, not damage. read his post again

    but yeah, I forgot cover of dusk, which would definately make insane numbers
    Last edited by Lurvi; 3rd December 2016 at 11:40.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurvi View Post
    gonna ask one thing first,
    wasn't there a FC post saying agrotools was not affected by hate? maybe it was quoted already here, but too lazy to search right now.
    I think hate modifier is only affected on damage (if the hate tool does damage) like cry of havoc it would boost hate generated by that ability. Irritate on the other hand, does no damage and will not see an increase of hate generation. That's what I think although I have a vague memory of reading what you said about the FC post.
    Fass
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fass View Post
    I think hate modifier is only affected on damage (if the hate tool does damage) like cry of havoc it would boost hate generated by that ability. Irritate on the other hand, does no damage and will not see an increase of hate generation. That's what I think although I have a vague memory of reading what you said about the FC post.
    The test me and red did gave same results on aggro boosted CoH as no hate at all. The damage from CoH is not connected to the majority of the threat that CoH does, its just some standalone thing, and sure its definitely scaling with hate% but the damage is so small that it didnt show aggrodiffrence in our test.
    Last edited by magnum92; 3rd December 2016 at 13:10.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

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