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Thread: Guardians, we are missing our DPS.

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyyr View Post
    I think guards are fine in pvp, however the dmg feels totally random, sometimes my counterweight can in frenzy do around 5-7k dmg on clothie while other times it only does 1-2k.

    The range between the high and low dmg on polearm might be the thing that needs fixing?
    IMO they need a deep revamp to the polearm tree (and possibly AA tree too) with pvp in mind (not gonna happen, I know ). The class is just lacking in depth and mechanics. When frenzy had a magic damage modifier Guard was undeniably OP - not because of CW but because of SS* + reckoning which could one shot (or at least nearly one shot) any clothie - and reliably at that. On such a tanky and simple class (with passive CC resists) high damage is OP. Brute Conq might be a cheesy class but at least they have some stuff to think about - debuff your target and get your crit stacks up before landing FA 9, for example (and maybe even apply a quick GodS). No such thing on guard. Just go frenzy and prey that your CW crits. And before the frenzy change you simply went frenzy and did SS + reckoning (which is very fast) and you instantly had a kill.

    *also worth noting that SS does electrical damage (which is why it was affected by the frenzy modifier in the first place) and back then more than half the classes were running in pve gear with very low protection due to how bad pvp gear was.

    Oh and did I mention that passive CC resists is a boring and stupid mechanic?
    Last edited by kalston; 16th October 2016 at 12:39.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    IMO they need a deep revamp to the polearm tree (and possibly AA tree too) with pvp in mind (not gonna happen, I know ). The class is just lacking in depth and mechanics. When frenzy had a magic damage modifier Guard was undeniably OP - not because of CW but because of SS* + reckoning which could one shot (or at least nearly one shot) any clothie - and reliably at that. On such a tanky and simple class (with passive CC resists) high damage is OP. Brute Conq might be a cheesy class but at least they have some stuff to think about - debuff your target and get your crit stacks up before landing FA 9, for example (and maybe even apply a quick GodS). No such thing on guard. Just go frenzy and prey that your CW crits. And before the frenzy change you simply went frenzy and did SS + reckoning (which is very fast) and you instantly had a kill.

    *also worth noting that SS does electrical damage (which is why it was affected by the frenzy modifier in the first place) and back then more than half the classes were running in pve gear with very low protection due to how bad pvp gear was.
    Imo it would be easier to just make some changes to jugg and make it pvp viable than to try to do a complete overhaul of polearm.

    Literally all jugg needs to work in pvp is more dmg on overreach and titanic smash, lower cd on guard destroyer and maybe higher duration on the crit chance buff you get from it and maybe add a more interesting mechanic to dulling blow like forcing crit chance to be 0% on who you apply it to. Heck if you want you can even try to revamp the juggernaut ability and make it more interesting.

    Then a more general change to guardian is removing those passive buffs it has and make them all active and you can make them strong and on low duration. So for example in stead of having passive 10% CC resist, you have 100% CC resist for 1-2sec and all the other tactics or stratagems on go half cd, while the one you use goes on full cd.

  3. #33

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    Sure I'd be fine with that. Should tie that damage buff to frenzy though to avoid disrupting pve aggro generation and avoid the "I sit in def stance and still wreck you" of DT and Conq. Would love to play jugg in pvp. And people wouldn't complain about the weapon reach anymore
    Last edited by kalston; 16th October 2016 at 13:19.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  4. #34

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    Guardian in PvP doing very good with his melee range and dps. Counterweight eating clothies ! You can finish someone by fatality from his half HP.. I spent a lot of time on Pole PVP and Pole PVE.. PVP don't need anything.. just PVE need "something" what will give us more survivability or dps.. (not main dps but maybe DOT). I really don't know! Increasing pole guard main DPS = OP in pvp.. did you guys every crit from counterweight like 5-6k on clothie? Other classes can do the same? and finish someone by Reckoning where we can take crit by 1-2k?..
    <[Gamabuntu - Guardian]>
    [Hetzerkreuz - Barbarian]

    Like a furious cyclone, the guardian batters all enemies around them with lightning charged attack

  5. #35

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    From my own observation in pve when going dps specc pole, the large inconsistency in combo-damage is due to preloading combos, doing only finisher on CW removes 20% dmg, making finishers hit for very low in some cases. Which probably is the case in pvp since you do that more there.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  6. #36

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    But how it is possible to miss steps with pole? If you miss them you deserve farm and 0 kills.

  7. #37

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    Missing combo steps = lowest DPS, in pvp and in pve.. that is it. You can crit more on white hit than last step on combo.
    <[Gamabuntu - Guardian]>
    [Hetzerkreuz - Barbarian]

    Like a furious cyclone, the guardian batters all enemies around them with lightning charged attack

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinix View Post
    Imo it would be easier to just make some changes to jugg and make it pvp viable than to try to do a complete overhaul of polearm.

    Literally all jugg needs to work in pvp is more dmg on overreach and titanic smash, lower cd on guard destroyer and maybe higher duration on the crit chance buff you get from it and maybe add a more interesting mechanic to dulling blow like forcing crit chance to be 0% on who you apply it to. Heck if you want you can even try to revamp the juggernaut ability and make it more interesting.

    Then a more general change to guardian is removing those passive buffs it has and make them all active and you can make them strong and on low duration. So for example in stead of having passive 10% CC resist, you have 100% CC resist for 1-2sec and all the other tactics or stratagems on go half cd, while the one you use goes on full cd.

    Juggernaut in PvP? I saw few guards on shield in pvp.. but playing on this.. = no fun.
    <[Gamabuntu - Guardian]>
    [Hetzerkreuz - Barbarian]

    Like a furious cyclone, the guardian batters all enemies around them with lightning charged attack

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamabuntu View Post
    Juggernaut in PvP? I saw few guards on shield in pvp.. but playing on this.. = no fun.
    I'm surprised you find polearm fun. Polearm guardian could literally only have counterweight as the only combo and it will be almost the same as it is currently.

    Juggernaut on the other hand can have quite a bit of mechanics that would make it a lot of fun, the only reason you can say it's not fun is cause it's extremely bad, which is why i was suggesting some changes to make it viable. But tbh any change without a pure dps boost for s&s won't be enough.

  10. #40

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    in pve s/s is a great combo of instant aggro and survivability but in pvp it's just good survivability and average dmg/utility. Truth is in pvp a dt not using VoM wanting to turtle as much as possible with other aa's and spec will have so much self heal that it will be more effective and resiliant than the supposed masterpiece of pure mitigation aka guardian. pve =/= pvp.

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