More hate decrease for hox?

[Caudilloo]

It was debatable if Knowledge was better than Butcher back when our best gear was T4, before Fire Lance got buffed, before we were using max rank Hell strikes, and now I think Butcher is the clear winner, especially assuming you have the best gear in the game.

I heard others argue it the exact other way and say that now that we have T5 buffs and burn to death damage is a significantly larger part of your total damage output it got more important buffing your magic damage. What makes you feel butcher is the clear winner now?

It doesn't really happen often that you end up in a group with zerker barb/guard/bs/demo/conq as a hox when you can also put a sin there in my experience. Neither do I ever get blessing from a pom on my hox because they usually use it on a class that benefits fully from the weapon damage buff like barb for example or on a soldier to give them extra survivability/aggro.
In a time trial where you want to optimize every source of dps I would say poms, zerker barbs and sins are in much higher danger of pulling aggro then hoxes.

All things being equal (gear/experience/skill level) I don't feel hoxes are in more danger of pulling aggro then any other dps class. If you are better geared, more experienced or simply better at your hox then others you are supposed to hold back in order to not get aggro. If you didn't ever have to think about your limitations it would make a lot of things very boring.

[Greyloins]

I think it's very hard to use ruin on classes that can't do it.

Been literally years since I played my demo, and I can't for the life of me remember whether they apply wreck or ruin. I take it by your comment it's the wreck and not the ruin as suggested by Shax's post, but in any case many demos (even in good guilds) don't use it, leaving it to the toses.

I heard others argue it the exact other way and say that now that we have T5 buffs and burn to death damage is a significantly larger part of your total damage output it got more important buffing your magic damage. What makes you feel butcher is the clear winner now?

The Ethram-Fal sword has significantly more damage than the T4 had, and as said, we now use max rank Hell Strikes and Fire Lance got a 20% buff. Burn to Death (both the dot and the combo itself) also benefit from weapon damage.

It doesn't really happen often that you end up in a group with zerker barb/guard/bs/demo/conq as a hox when you can also put a sin there in my experience. Neither do I ever get blessing from a pom on my hox because they usually use it on a class that benefits fully from the weapon damage buff like barb for example or on a soldier to give them extra survivability/aggro.

It happens all the time in time trials where you want to maximize dps with good group compositions, which is where I'm saying it's easy to get aggro due to DPS doing way more dmg than pre-T5 while tanks not receiving similar increases to their aggro. IMO Blessing is best given to a hox or DT because they benefit both from the weapon damage, and the base spell damage increase. Giving it to a sin will just make it that much more likely for him to take aggro (but at least a sin can pop dull pain on many bosses), assuming of course that the sin is properly geared, buffed, and playing to the class' potential.

[Caudilloo]

It happens all the time in time trials where you want to maximize dps with good group compositions, which is where I'm saying it's easy to get aggro due to DPS doing way more dmg than pre-T5 while tanks not receiving similar increases to their aggro. IMO Blessing is best given to a hox or DT because they benefit both from the weapon damage, and the base spell damage increase.

You mention 5 classes but a sin or another barb/carnage conq would benefit from that group much more then a hox would since for a hox all those weapon damage buffs don't affect 100% of their damage.

The same goes for blessing from a pom. To make things easy lets say a hox does 50/50 magic and physical damage. That means half their damage benefits from a good weapon damage buff and half their damage benefits from a base spell damage buff that doesn't really make much difference (base spell damage buffs are quite overrated).

It's a misconception that the fact that a class that uses two types of damage takes more advantage from a buff that buffs both magic and physical damage.
Take for example the rune from the subscription offer a couple months back that gives 3% increase to strength/int/wis/dex. For a hox this means their intelligence(buffing half their damage) gets upped by 3% and their strength(buffing half their damage) gets upped by 3%. For a barb this means his strength (buffing 100% of his damage) gets upped by 3%. The final result (100% of their base stats get buffed by 3%) is the same.

[Boesch]

You mention 5 classes but a sin or another barb/carnage conq would benefit from that group much more then a hox would since for a hox all those weapon damage buffs don't affect 100% of their damage.

The same goes for blessing from a pom. To make things easy lets say a hox does 50/50 magic and physical damage. That means half their damage benefits from a good weapon damage buff and half their damage benefits from a base spell damage buff that doesn't really make much difference (base spell damage buffs are quite overrated).

It's a misconception that the fact that a class that uses two types of damage takes more advantage from a buff that buffs both magic and physical damage.
Take for example the rune from the subscription offer a couple months back that gives 3% increase to strength/int/wis/dex. For a hox this means their intelligence(buffing half their damage) gets upped by 3% and their strength(buffing half their damage) gets upped by 3%. For a barb this means his strength (buffing 100% of his damage) gets upped by 3%. The final result (100% of their base stats get buffed by 3%) is the same.

Sort of but a bit more complicated than that

It's been some time since I've played my HOX but if I recall correctly the dots for instance scale off both magic and physical - now whether they scale equally etc. etc. is another question altogether

[magnum92]

Greyloins do you want hoxes to get more aggrotools? And what would that be in that case. Im curious cause ive never experienced a hox with aggroissues ever, not even t5 hoxes in timers. And if thats cause i havent played with an awesome hox, or you in your timerscenarios have had weak tanks, im gonna leave unsaid i dont recall these situations at all atleast.

[Redd]

We did all the master timers, and I've never experienced aggro related issues in any of them either. The fights are usually fast and those nuke phases are short to find yourself without any aggro tools left. I find it hard to see hoxes having issues in time trials.

[Shax84]

Been literally years since I played my demo, and I can't for the life of me remember whether they apply wreck or ruin. I take it by your comment it's the wreck and not the ruin as suggested by Shax's post, but in any case many demos (even in good guilds) don't use it, leaving it to the toses.

My bad, mixed it up, the Ruin is ToS (Curse of Set) and HoX (Inferno Curse) that can cast.

The Ethram-Fal sword has significantly more damage than the T4 had, and as said, we now use max rank Hell Strikes and Fire Lance got a 20% buff. Burn to Death (both the dot and the combo itself) also benefit from weapon damage.

T4: 148.8 dps
T6: 153.8 dps

5 dps difference - not quite significant. Butcher add 20% weapon damage, thats an easy calculation. What is 20% of 5? 1. Butcher increase weapon damage of T6 sword with 1 more dps compared to what it increase T4 sword with. Actually that is very insignificant. Also, increasing the weapons base dps through a feat like Butcher will increase damage of all combos by the same number. The buff on Fire Lance is on combo finisher damage, and that buff persist even with a tortage 2he.

Sort of but a bit more complicated than that

It's been some time since I've played my HOX but if I recall correctly the dots for instance scale off both magic and physical - now whether they scale equally etc. etc. is another question altogether

Thats true. Did a test a while back with my HoX and with the butterknife, casting Exultation of Xotli +90% weapon damage made my Burn to death dot increase by 9%. But anyway it's not a groundbreaking difference, or as Greyloins consider it to be, one of the best feats of the Hox. It's plain average, and nothing to cry over if you can't get it.

[Fass]

We did all the master timers, and I've never experienced aggro related issues in any of them either. The fights are usually fast and those nuke phases are short to find yourself without any aggro tools left. I find it hard to see hoxes having issues in time trials.

Your hoxes must not play their class to the full potential.

[Redd]

Your hoxes must not play their class to the full potential.

Your guild's hoxes must not play their class to its potential then.

Ofc! hahah

[Mirosch]

Hox need more hate decrease thats a fact. He doesnt even have hate decrease^^

Sure against good Tanks in most normal Bossfights you wont get aggro cause the overall damage is too low.

But what is Burst good for if you have no class specific hate decrease buff to cover it? And like i said the burst is sometimes just crazy, thats also a fact.

Or does a Burst class without hate decrease and a stable dps class with plenty hate decreas buffs make any sense?


I think its pretty unbalanced - hox does less damage than other classes - i have no problem with that.
But he even get aggro with less damage - and i have a problem with that. And use the rezz for hate decreas is no option for me (besides it doesnt work on some bosses anayway

Btw: Someone can tell me how much dps the hox can be able to do at the puppet?

On TL with full T4 and AA i was with melee burst specc and using debuffs at 1750dps - i dont started to count all single attacks, festpoints and so just wanan know how ,uch room is left^^