New player -- Wondering about rotations/builds (DT and HoX specifically)

[Senvilan]

(I hope it's okay to post this here; the F2P class board looked pretty dead.)

I started the game a few weeks ago (playing sparingly with my GF) and I still don't really know what I'm doing with the rotations for the aforementioned classes. In fact, I'm actually kind of confused about rotations in the game in general, as I've noticed people suggesting taking multiple ranks of the same skill. There are a lot of skills and seemingly a lot of different ranks for most of them, so I'd like to get an idea of which ones I should be using as I level up both of these classes (and which ones I should use at 80.)

I'm also pretty lost on a good build for both classes. I'll be almost exclusively soloing or duoing with the gf, so I'd prefer something that has decent damage capabilities and survivability, if possible. I found a few builds on the specific class boards, but I'm not sure they really fit what I'm looking for.

Anyway, I just wanted to try and get a better grasp of the game, overall. If any of you have any suggestions or helpful information/reading material for a virtually brand new player, I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks.

[Greyloins]

Every melee class in AoC has a low-cooldown, high damage, no utility combo that is an important part of their rotation, and for almost every class it's worth it to use two ranks of that combo rather than one since there is a cooldown that prevents you from using the same rank twice in a row. Usually this will be the highest rank and the second-highest rank, though there are exceptions (these are not relevant to casual/solo players though). Examples of these combos are the sin's Swift Strikes or the DT's Blood for Aid.

Hoxes are sort of an exception here, because a. Hell Strikes is not all that great, b. hox rotation is affected by the fact that you cast a lot of spells rather than abilities like other melee classes (spells have animations or cast times that take time as opposed to instant abilities that can be used in the middle of combos), and c. hoxes have 3 combos that compete with Hell Strikes, specifically Pillar of Infernal Flames 2, Pillar of Infernal Flames 3 (both ranks are very good), and Fire Lance (essentially a better Hell Strikes). However, while leveling or otherwise not having lots of AAs (e.g. being a casual F2P player), your Pillars combos will have long cooldown times, requiring you to use more Hell Strikes. You will still probably not require 2 ranks, but it doesn't hurt to have 2 keybinded anyways. Hell Strikes is superior to these combos if the target is resistant to magic/fire damage (Hell Strikes is physical damage as opposed to these others, which deal fire damage), and using the max rank is mandatory if you get the T5 rune (hard raiding reward), but this is likely irrelevant to you.

The logic for most of the melee classes is to use a DoT combo (for hox, this is Burn to Death), which is generally your strongest combo and highest priority, and then using your "pure damage combos" - for a hox, the priority will probably be Pillars 2 > Pillars 3 > Fire Lance > Hell Strikes (probably not the max rank at 80 since it is a 3-step combo). You will only have time to do 2 of these before it's time for another Burn to Death. The big difference is that a hox also has his spells to consider. Hellfire Breath is your highest priority (above even Burn to Death, at least without T5 rune), and since it is instant with the mandatory feat at the top of the Possession tree, you should ideally be doing this between combos when it comes off cooldown, even in the middle of combo steps. You can also cast spells such as Spitfire, Desecrating Essence, Avatar of Xotli, Inferno etc. in the middle of combo steps.

Molten Steel Slash deals pretty weak damage by itself and the debuff is rarely worth it on solo mobs (as opposed to dungeon/raid bosses), so it's probably not worth using unless the directional shields of the mob make it worth it. Unhallowed Blight for the DT is exactly the same in this regard. Body and Spirit Wrack is probably never worth using in solo/duo PvE for a hox, and Mystical Bane for a DT is probably only worth using if the mobs shields makes Blood for Aid very weak.

Much of this goes out the window on solo mobs however, since you can't move around them to make your combos hit unshielded sides. Using Pillars or Hell Strikes is not worth it if the mob has his shields stacked to the top. On the other hand, if you're duoing, mobs will likely die so fast that optimal rotations doesn't really matter at all. Additionally, when leveling there are gaps where you will have a higher rank of a combo that may be mediocre at max lvl than a combo that is generally better, so the weak combo may be 'temporarily' good because you have such a high rank of it.

For a DT, the rotation is less strict since a lot of the damage you do happens regardless of what combo you use. Generally you should keep up Leech Life and a Soul for Our Feast as much as possible for the life drain, and then alternate between your two highest ranks of Blood for Aid. Mindshatter is also very nice for multiple enemies and you don't need to save it for an 'oh-****' moment.

I'm not confident enough in my DT knowledge to offer you a build since I've never played a DT without Void of Madness (AA perk that many feel makes the class), but this is my build for solo play on my hox. It has a fair bit more survivability than the typical raid dps builds due to the points in improved Phoenix Cloak and increased stun on transformations. Whether you go down Possession or Avatar first doesn't matter a lot (most of the early trees is pretty crap) except that you absolutely need Instant Hellfire Breath with your first points, but Possession offers more utility and survivability with Thundering Flames (you will interrupt combos and spells without even trying).

http://goo.gl/IwiZu7

Also, your DT will probably get a bunch of combos in Tortage like Sweep, Slam, Enraging Strike, Brutal Enraging Strike etc. These are good when they're new, but don't make the mistake that many who start AoC do of keeping them past like lvl 30 at the most. You won't get new ranks of these past Tortage so they quickly become worthless.

[Senvilan]

Wow, thanks a ton for this informative write-up . I've never seen the skill ranks thing laid out and explained like that so it's really helpful. I'm also glad that you talked about the soldier moves and how we're supposed to stop using them relatively soon -- I had always wondered about that. I'm confused as to why those were even given to the melee classes in the first place, rather than just their own class-specific combos.

And thanks for the HoX build too -- I haven't taken anything not listed in your build yet, so I'm still on the right track.

Hate to ask about another class, but I was thinking of possibly starting a BS down the road. Don't suppose you have any tips on that one as well?

Thanks again!

[Greyloins]

Sure. Bear Shaman is very good choice, being a fun class that is very strong solo thanks to its self-healing, high armor, and decent damage.

The basics of the class is to refresh Blood Flow (your 'blue' heal - a cone that casts a powerful (though not early on) HoT on yourself and allies but does not stack with the blue heals of the pom or tos) every 15 seconds, because you want to keep up the 15% weapon damage buff you get from Blood Warrior (nearly mandatory feat in Spirit, which has a stronger upgrade later in the tree). You also want to use Renewal as much as possible (your 'green' heal, a weaker HoT of which a player can have up to 3 of at the same time, meaning both the bs' green and two of the greens from a pom,tos, dt or demo), both for the heal, and because it makes your next attack deal significantly more damage if you have the nearly mandatory feat in Spirit. This buff can be consumed by any attack so it's important to save it for your combo itself rather than directional attacks (unless you simply want to get a green heal running asap), so 9 times out of 10 you will cast Renewal right before your last step on your highest-rank Shrewd Blow combo. Ursine Brawl, Bloodthirst, and Bewilder can also hit hard sometimes though so it's not a big loss to spend it on those.

As with the other melees (guard and DT being exception), the DoT combo is essential for a BS but in a different way. While Internal Bleed is not a terrible combo in itself, it has an important effect in that it can trigger a 'Vision' if you have a 'Manifestation' buff running. You can only have 1 Manifestation up at the same time, and they have 3 components: 1. a (smallish) self-buff, 2. a debuff it puts on enemies through AoE pulsing every few seconds centered on yourself, and 3. a 'Vision'. This Vision can be a considerable DoT followed by a burst of damage on your enemy (Manifestation of Spirit, very good), a small DoT on your enemy and an increasing weapon damage boost to yourself (Manifestation of the Sun, very good), or an increasing armor buff (Manifestation of the Forest, decent for soloing).

Because of this, many BSes stick with the rank 2 of Internal Bleed even at max lvl, as it is more important to get off Visions quickly than to get a little bit more combo and DoT damage. Always have a Manifestation active when using Internal Bleed (you will probably be alternating between 3). When your Internal Bleed is on CD, you can alternate between your two highest ranks of Shrewd Blow, Ursine Brawl, and Bloodthirst/Bewilder if you have them, remembering to use Renewal at good times as much as possible, and keeping up Blood Warrior.

For a build, I would suggest going something like this - http://goo.gl/fAOskG, order doesn't matter all that much. BS doesn't have a lot of bad feats though, so you pretty much can't go wrong (although I'll note that you don't really need to grab much survivability at all as a BS). The biggest game-changer in my experience is Rampage, which turns you into a complete beast if you have a decent blunt.\

Damn, I should play my BS more...

[Flip--]

One thing I do that helps with combo's and damage out-put info is to have a combat damage (only) window up. Short of a combat logger/parser, this helps me see what rotations seem to be doing the best damage. You don't even have to pay attention during a fight, but can take a few seconds after to scroll through your damage output and see exactly what attacks are doing what amount of damage.

[Shax84]

Sure. Bear Shaman is very good choice (...snip) many BSes stick with the rank 2 of Internal Bleed even at max lvl

The feats you posted are incomplete. 18 points remaining to spend. I guess this is what was missing: http://goo.gl/sWyVhX

There is no point of doing IB 2 if you got the AA reduction on Manifestations. You can then do; heal/buff/whatever, Manifestation (Spirit/Sun), IB, SB, SB, IB, SB (heal/buff/whatever), Manifestation (Sun/Spirit), IB, SB, SB, repeat.

[Senvilan]

Can't thank you enough for all the help, Greyloins. This stuff is pretty intimidating when you still effectively have no idea what you're doing, so I feel much better about it now. The BS sounds pretty bad ass, so I might make that my main alt (if not my main in general, if I like it enough.) And of course, thanks for the build advice as well -- I'm saving all of this in a word document as a point of reference. I imagine I'll have plenty of other questions down the road (about other specifics of the game) but I'll probably save those for when I'm closer to level cap.

And thanks for the extra tips guys. I actually have the combat window out already (habit from past mmos) but I may opt for a parser to make it even easier to gauge things. I'll search around for one a little later.

Looking forward to the journey .

[Shax84]

If you pay for a premium month the forums will open for you and you can see all the other info on subforums. There are many good sticky threads under each class forum.

[Anzu]

F2P players can only in the F2P forums, but they should be able to read everything. If that's not the case, let me know so I can forward it to Odonoptera please.

[Shax84]

Oh, if that's the case then it's no point in keeping this open with all the info available over on class forums.