Raid gear, world bosses and Solo'ing and Small groups.

[magnum92]

In this regard you can count the unchained instances as "raid" as well, because to survive them, you need to have either powerfull raider friends or have good raidgear as well. Try the new 6ppl dungeons by only doing 6ppl instances (especially if you have to find out the "tactics" by yourself).

Sorry I dont wanna sound like a complete elitist but I dont agree at all with your view that unchained dungeons need to be done by good raiders or people with good raidgear, not even while figuring out tactics.

So the main point is, if you want to make topgear available to everyone sooner or later or keep the access to a limited group that sooner or later runs out of people or reasons to do the content (got all gear). This does not have to mean "give away for free". You can only make a true mistake here, if you make raidgear available by any other non-raid content faster than by raiding (for example world boss content in 2009 -> definitely less raids)...

Giving away the same loot that we struggle week after week together for, to people that do activities anyone could do, would most def make us "run out of people" and especially run out of reason for US to do "our" content, the content the game got announced to have. Sure you can play an MMO solo, and im not against giving soloplayers some of the contentaddings, but trying to change the game at such a fundemental level that would screw the game over for us raiders, thats just a bad idea that def will kill the game.

[Kellisia]

The one saying "there should be content specific rewards" is right, but Kellisia is definitely not a troll. There is a valid argument, that you should be able to get powerful or satisfying rewards, independendly of what gamestyle you prefer. There is a misunderstanding at the current veteran playerbase about MMOs in general: It does not mean you have to play with people in the same content or instance, it means you CAN play with real people and these peoples can be part of the gameworld (like ultima online for example did). If someone wants to be a smith, let them. If someone wants to go dragonslaying, let them find friends and do it. There CAN be ways for interaction even (for example the smith specialist could forge the masterwork base items necessary, but the raiders could offer the best materials or recipes for enchantment for example). Having different content from different routes does not have to mean they are exclusive. Easier to gain by the intended way, probably yes. But the smith could still be able to buy the rare materials from the raider or vice versa (so BoP is part of the problem).

Also, topraidgear does not have to be topgear in game total. AoC is special here, because main development has been for topraidgear in the past years...with the addition last year of a bit of power pvp gear. Crafting and any crossover gear is still stagnating. In this regard you can count the unchained instances as "raid" as well, because to survive them, you need to have either powerfull raider friends or have good raidgear as well. Try the new 6ppl dungeons by only doing 6ppl instances (especially if you have to find out the "tactics" by yourself).

So the main point is, if you want to make topgear available to everyone sooner or later or keep the access to a limited group that sooner or later runs out of people or reasons to do the content (got all gear). This does not have to mean "give away for free". You can only make a true mistake here, if you make raidgear available by any other non-raid content faster than by raiding (for example world boss content in 2009 -> definitely less raids)...

At this point i would not allow any fast access to t4+ except by t4 raids, but there should be a supplement option (for example, if you mainly raid t1-t3 and only rarely t4) or a chance to use stuff from casual raiding to improve existing gear from other game content (to increase number of potentially successfull t4+ raiders).

Thank you Kurt. An even to this we can't force people to do things they don't want to do. AN their game stops eventually some where for them. Top gear or not. Everyone should be able to experience the end. Everyone experienced a end in Super Mario.
Kurt brings up the world bosses. Look how many instances open up when world boss his. How many Free to play people may jump on to play. To get a chance at a some random ring or maybe just the Cloak at the end of the years rounds. But the world stands still and people stand around just to kill this thing. An what do you get. t1 t2 gear, some t3 tokens Random give outs if your lucky.. But you still have to work for it. The time it takes to kill the World boss, the time it takes you to run to port to a new instant. So we all just sit around waiting for fun come to usher in t4 t5 t6 world bosses.

[magnum92]

Top gear or not. Everyone should be able to experience the end. Everyone experienced a end in Super Mario.

Except you miss out the core concept of a game, everyone doesnt reach peach in Super Mario, you save Peach by completing the levels. If you dont, you will get stuck.

Since you dont seem to understand how a game is structured,

Challange -> Complete challange -> Reward

Since the game have better and worse players, and players with time, and players with less time, the challanges differs, and so does the reward, which everybody except a very very few base of people agree with. Lets listen to the majority shall we.

[Kellisia]

Except you miss out the core concept of a game, everyone doesnt reach peach in Super Mario, you save Peach by completing the levels. If you dont, you will get stuck.

Since you dont seem to understand how a game is structured,

Challange -> Complete challange -> Reward

Since the game have better and worse players, and players with time, and players with less time, the challanges differs, and so does the reward, which everybody except a very very few base of people agree with. Lets listen to the majority shall we.

Game won't live on with out money. 0 Reward.

I don't seem to understand how a game is structured? Where did you figure that in there.

Your blind to your own words.. Everyone doesn't reach peach in Super Mario ( I guess you played it?) You save peach by completing levels. What in your own words have you missed? I think it was EVERYONE. If you get there everyone had the ability to experience the same thing. Thus is what Age of conan doesn't have unless you Find 24 people. Go back to Rathothis post about small player base and large raid size.

You obviously understand that challenges differ, so make that challenge different for everyone, all aspects. What will keep people playing? We can't subject everyone to raiding, and we the community need to be more open minded. More money more content. (More raids) But even that we can't subject everyone to what we prefer. Could a small incentive that has to be worked for ( like getting to Princess peach) spark a nerve and get someone to raid, and not only raid, improve their game all because they have more to look forward to?

[xCodename]

I have a million reasons to disagree with this statement; but for fear of being called a troll and possible penalties/persecution from all parties (players & FUNCOM) , I'll play it safe ~ I AGREE 100% ~ +1000000000 ~ you tell em' xCode ... !

Eberyone is so temperamental in this "hardcore" game.

I may be a veteran player because I play since the beginning but still, I haven't done T5 or T6 yet, not even finished one character with a full T4 set because me and my raid were not able to kill the bosses because we basically were to bad, thats fact (haven't tried the new easy mode versions yet and the things I heard about it don't bring be back because I really dislike easymode games, every game nowdays goes for the easymode way). If people want the best gear in the game they have to do something for it, thats how I see it.

[magnum92]

Game won't live on with out money. 0 Reward.

I don't seem to understand how a game is structured? Where did you figure that in there.

Your blind to your own words.. Everyone doesn't reach peach in Super Mario ( I guess you played it?) You save peach by completing levels. What in your own words have you missed? I think it was EVERYONE. If you get there everyone had the ability to experience the same thing. Thus is what Age of conan doesn't have unless you Find 24 people. Go back to Rathothis post about small player base and large raid size.

If you're not good enough you wont reach peach, but everyone have the same oppertunity to do it, yes ofc. Just the same as in AOC where anyone can create their own guild, and build that guild to the point top raid-guilds are today, or just join an existing one, I know 2-3 top guilds recruiting as we speak. We need to have a big range of diffuculty settings in this game so it fits as many playertypes as possible.

[Kellisia]

As a primarily solo player (who likes the occasional pug raid and sixman) I could farm myself a full t2 set in 1 week of worldboss. The gear isn't good in comparison to khitai purple and t3.5+ but for oldworld stuff it's good.. Heck, it's doable for most k6nm and some HM's for non tank classes. While I'm farming wb, I frequently get t3 raid tokens for t3 gear.

If I want better gear, I farm factions to rank 4 and farm rares for a week to buy khitai purple stuff. I fill in what I cant get with rare trophies alone with t3 gear and join groups to get the rest.

If I want better gear at that point I join a pug raid, or make friends with guilds who have it on farm. Considering they've nerfed t3, t3.5, and t4, there's no real reason why someone who wants better gear cannot get it, even as a primarily solo player.

Should raids have a 12 man option? Sure, why not? You can do most of t2 with 18 or less, you can do t3.5 with like 12 people or less, so it makes sense to have a 12 man option/version. Should solo players be rewarded gear that's comparable with higher tier (3.5+) raid gear? Maybe one or two pieces, but not a full raid-set, because it defeats the point of raiding.

Solo player reward wouldn't be a piece of gear like some may think.. It would be a few quest that reward tokens and possible rare if you complete a chain of events. Like some of our other quest in the game do. Like the Emissary Quest. This could lead to someone getting close to buying a item and join a raid. An see what it is about. Not only that it would contribute to Raiders on alts, give them a relaxation point to let someone who has hard time getting in raids get in and learn it, same goes for those who just solo all the time for their enjoy ment. Many out comes from this if people see it correctly. I don't expect anything free.. An surely don't want higher gear free. It will still have to be worked for.. As Kurt said, only mistake with this is that funcom makes something like soloing faster than raiding. This is not my intent by this post. I simply want to give options to those who may sit out for others. Need a break sometimes and Surely my post is giving more to Hard core raiders.

[magnum92]

Solo player reward wouldn't be a piece of gear like some may think.. It would be a few quest that reward tokens and possible rare if you complete a chain of events. Like some of our other quest in the game do. Like the Emissary Quest. This could lead to someone getting close to buying a item and join a raid. An see what it is about. Not only that it would contribute to Raiders on alts, give them a relaxation point to let someone who has hard time getting in raids get in and learn it, same goes for those who just solo all the time for their enjoy ment. Many out comes from this if people see it correctly. I don't expect anything free.. An surely don't want higher gear free. It will still have to be worked for.. As Kurt said, only mistake with this is that funcom makes something like soloing faster than raiding. This is not my intent by this post. I simply want to give options to those who may sit out for others. Need a break sometimes and Surely my post is giving more to Hard core raiders.

Gearing up alts is the reason the game isnt dead 1 year after raid is released, you want to decrease the time for us to gear alts? That's also an idea I disagree with bigtime.

[Kellisia]

If you're not good enough you wont reach peach, but everyone have the same oppertunity to do it, yes ofc. Just the same as in AOC where anyone can create their own guild, and build that guild to the point top raid-guilds are today, or just join an existing one, I know 2-3 top guilds recruiting as we speak. We need to have a big range of diffuculty settings in this game so it fits as many playertypes as possible.

I been around a while Magnum.. I get what your saying you know 2 3 top guild recruiting. I also know that sometimes recruiting happens do to someones filled their object and have gear up the %%% . An when they come back.. or someone to anyone comes back. Can they accommodate those who don't get in raid. I have joined guilds where vets of the guild have priority to get in a raid over someone who just join the guild. So even when you join a guild what could happen.

Yes we need a big range of difficulty, that same difficulty can be applied to things other than raiding making options for everyone. I'm am only a petitioner.. How hard funcom would choose to make things to accommodate everyone. That's up to them. An its up to us to keep posting that okay that's to fast, or that not hard enough. They look at post to see how to grow. I never once have implied in my post I want this to be free or easy. I just want everyone to enjoy getting to the Peach.. Even if someone isn't good enough. If they never stop trying Maybe one day they will reach peach.

Gearing up alts is the reason the game isnt dead 1 year after raid is released, you want to decrease the time for us to gear alts? That's also an idea I disagree with bigtime.

Once again, never said it would be easy or fast. It would be a incentive. An as for game being dead. There are people who seem to see it is when they log in. That needs to change. You also have to ask yourself, what effect this could have for Funcom to bring in money. Money means, More raids.. So would that really decrease time to gear up alts if funcom is able to fire out more content faster?

There is always that what if.. Everyone wants something for that hard earned money.. We can't make people wait to get in raids anymore, but just like their hard earned money. They will have to work for what they want.

Never know people may buy more character slots instead of just changing spec.. Or a a Tank dt and a dt in all Pom gear.. how ever they want to play. I can't tell you what someone would do.

[Kurt2013]

Except you miss out the core concept of a game, everyone doesnt reach peach in Super Mario, you save Peach by completing the levels. If you dont, you will get stuck.

Since you dont seem to understand how a game is structured,

Challange -> Complete challange -> Reward

Since the game have better and worse players, and players with time, and players with less time, the challanges differs, and so does the reward, which everybody except a very very few base of people agree with. Lets listen to the majority shall we.

And you miss the current practice in design of AoC. This whole thread would probably not exist, if the dev focus powerwise would not have been on raiding (or rather power progression/lockout through gear mainly) in the past years, making t4+ so powerfull. For some it is not even a power issue, but a vanity one. That is why crafting or trading should not be so neglected! Imagine being able to sell or transform "bad" loot from raiding...either into a tradeable skin, currency or bound resources or tokens you yourself could use for similar useful gear or alts. Also imagine, if we would have this argument, if funcom had kept the old "raid only" stats for gear and sets (old = <2009). Maybe we see a change with the crafting revamp (e.g. more raiders too due to more gear options and routes to get powerful gear for raids), but then ...maybe not.

Your reasoning is fine for Mario and a linear tier based game (which raiding might well be...and that is fine! I definitely understand and accept your tiered challenge argument for THAT content.). But the whole MMO is NOT like that (or should not be if it wants to live long and prosper). This i wanted to illustrate, there should be more (for raiders, casuals, pvpers etc.) options! You may be used to such systems, but not everyone is and not everyone likes them. These people do not want to steal your hard earned rewards, they might simply want to play, trade or follow your path while they and the game are still alive. And you had this issues the whole time, too...are you blaming that someone who joined his/her first raid and got lucky or pulled through and won a dice roll? This seems more like "getting something for free" to me (but it is also part of the fun of random loot systems).

@shink:
Yes, you are right...khitai gear might work too. Or full AA, depending on classes. Main point there was, that you pretty much need good power to do them, especially as tank (and to the other poster: I did not mean that this should be the way!). And most of my friends got their purple khitai gear from grinding and factions and only when lucky got it from 6ppls there. Still when khitai came out the people doing these instances mainly were not those coming from old world 6-ppls, but big guild raiders, so the crossover argument remains.