Please Funcom, listen to us! - An open letter

[Raeil]

WoW Style Click Combat? Guess, you never made it to the Sherriffs Office. One of the big deals with TSW is in fact the Combat System - its simply great. In opposite to WoW you can move, and you MUST move, or you like lying around dead. Its a very comprehensive System with shitloads of deck-combinations, you have to study well. I really love AoC, but the combat is "old school", casters and ranged fighters cant move at all, this makes me crazy here. Of course... foes don't do damages which force you to move (except boss tactics in Raids or High Inis). To master the Dungeons in TSW in Nightmare Mode you need really a lot of skill, movement and understanding. And teamplay of course. So to compare this game with WoW is simply dumbish.

The Missions are outstanding. There is no better story driven game than TSW. And btw: only a few missions are requiring a brain capacity past the horizon of a taxidriver. Most missions are simple in their requests, but still stunning with their story. No classes btw. is not true. There are classes in TSW but they are not exactly defined. If you like range play, you chose the weapons for it and skill them. If you like to be a melee DPS, then you chose swords, fists or hammer, and skill that. And if you like magic.. well there is. The difference is, you don't need a twink. You can do it all with one char. And this is what confuses normal players. They are used to their old fashioned class system, and expect that. Then they see that damned big skillwheel and get overwhelmed. They are not used to decide by themselves, they need their guidelines. In Dungeons you have the "Holy Trinity" as in any other game: Tank, Healer, DPS. With the difference, that every veteran char can switch to any of that classes when needed. But I understand: people love twinking ^^ There is no need for twinking in TSW, except of playing another faction, therefore you have 3 slots, not more.

Besides all that, the grafic is still stunning. Its one of the most beautyful online games ever. Well, if you love AoC, with its elder grafics, but made deliciosly detailed as it is, then you will love TSW also. The animations could be a bit better, yes, but all the atmo is fantastic. If you don't like the setting - well, this is a matter of taste. Surely it has its flaws, as any game does. But I will not talk about the flaws now and here.

I don't say all this, to diminish AoC, hell no. I love AoC, and play it again now (after they implemented the new Achievement System). But I can stand all that ******** here about TSW. AoC is a damned good game, TSW is as well. There is no "better" or such, they are just different. But don't talk nonsense about this damned good title.

While I agree with most of that I think there's a lot of angst over TSW presumably pulling funds away from AoC. Which it may have though I suspect if not TSW it would have been something else but I won't pretend to know. Either way what's done is done at this point.

If I had the money to spare I'd send them 20 or 30 million to develop both games with. There's nothing else out there like either one of them, at least that I've seen, and likely never will be.

[cins]

I think there's a lot of angst over TSW presumably pulling funds away from AoC.

They're ****ing idiots. It's the same sort of stupidity you saw from "hardcore" pvpers when new dungeons/raids were announced. Even if TSW was never made, something else would've been made instead and would be getting FC's support now.

FC is great at making stuff, but never at keeping them. They should've been churning out lots of single player games instead of trying to maintain MMOs, they could've become a very big name in the industry by now if they had a long list of awesome single player games. They could've probably made like 15 games with the resources that's gone into AO, AoC and TSW over the years. But that'd mean no awesome MMOs for us, so this is probably better from our perspective.

[Laurina]

Raeil, you're bloody well right, and you nailed it. I think, that's the problem. Nice, that you used the german word "Angst". Indeed, lot's of AoC players were trembling in fear with the coming of TSW, because it could have been a drain of AoC. But I don't think so. I met some old AoC Veterans in there, but they mostly played both games still. Like I do.

Btw. I don't think, that FC should given their power into single player titles. Besides they have some very good ones, the making of MMOs is their strength. And holding them would be easy if they would sell as other MMOs do. Support is mostly a matter of manpower. Development too.

Both, AoC and TSW are outstanding on the market and unique in their premise, setting and quality. When I look over the ponds to asia now, and the games they are spamming out these times, I could simply cry. Most of them are brutal grind, packed into childish killifitty armour with storys as thin as a cracker. Even when grafics look stunning, they cannot deny their lack of genius.

[barbaricwildcat2]

making of MMOs is their strength.

they are pretty much broke, not exactly a financial strength

[Suctum]

Raeil, you're bloody well right, and you nailed it. I think, that's the problem. Nice, that you used the german word "Angst". Indeed, lot's of AoC players were trembling in fear with the coming of TSW, because it could have been a drain of AoC. But I don't think so. I met some old AoC Veterans in there, but they mostly played both games still. Like I do.

Btw. I don't think, that FC should given their power into single player titles. Besides they have some very good ones, the making of MMOs is their strength. And holding them would be easy if they would sell as other MMOs do. Support is mostly a matter of manpower. Development too.

Both, AoC and TSW are outstanding on the market and unique in their premise, setting and quality. When I look over the ponds to asia now, and the games they are spamming out these times, I could simply cry. Most of them are brutal grind, packed into childish killifitty armour with storys as thin as a cracker. Even when grafics look stunning, they cannot deny their lack of genius.

Secret Wolrd: no collision and lack of real time physics and "ghost" hit boxes, hence , WoW style combat. (no combos, simply move and click without having to adjust character placement)

You can say whatever you want about the story telling and thoughtful pve instances in TSW, I understand they are well made. I don't care for puzzles, I don't see the place in MMO's for them, it's just extra filler content that some think add another layer of depth to the game, others like me just see it as extra work, that once done, just becomes a chore to do again.

I wasn't born in 1997, I don't care about sandbox progression games. I don't want to play a character that can be any archetype or class at any time, just by resetting your skills. I like having limits on what particular class I am playing, I like knowing their is a ceiling to what I can do. It means if I want to enjoy content outside solo play, I need other people. MMO's are about playing with other people, and synergizing classes and abilities with others. Sandbox progression MMO's take that away in my view, and every one of which I have tried has been terrible.

[Raeil]

Secret Wolrd: no collision and lack of real time physics and "ghost" hit boxes, hence , WoW style combat. (no combos, simply move and click without having to adjust character placement)

You can say whatever you want about the story telling and thoughtful pve instances in TSW, I understand they are well made. I don't care for puzzles, I don't see the place in MMO's for them, it's just extra filler content that some think add another layer of depth to the game, others like me just see it as extra work, that once done, just becomes a chore to do again.

I wasn't born in 1997, I don't care about sandbox progression games. I don't want to play a character that can be any archetype or class at any time, just by resetting your skills. I like having limits on what particular class I am playing, I like knowing their is a ceiling to what I can do. It means if I want to enjoy content outside solo play, I need other people. MMO's are about playing with other people, and synergizing classes and abilities with others. Sandbox progression MMO's take that away in my view, and every one of which I have tried has been terrible.

I'm sure I'm not going to sway your opinion, just tossing some things out there. Also assuming the no collision complaint is due to pvp, which I don't do so no comment there, since there is collision with mobs.

Is there really that much difference between doing three to five builders then a consumer versus doing several white hits then a finisher? Keeping in mind that you can use more than one builder, typically one single target and one aoe though you're certainly not limited to that, and that there is a variety in how resources are built and used depending on what weapons and abilities you're using.

I also can't comment on WoW combat as I've never played it but needing to constantly move and keep the mobs both missing you as much as possible while you do max damage to them is a major part of TSW combat. You can even use the environment to kill mobs in some missions if your movement is good. Granted it's not as important in the earlier parts of the game now since the combat changes went live. I cry at the videos people make of TSW combat where they stand... in... one... freaking... place just trading blows with the mob/mobs. That's not how it's meant to be done and is probably why the changes were implemented to start with. But the stand still and duke it out approach absolutely will not get you anywhere in the later parts of the game. Certainly not in an efficient or enjoyable way.

Most of what you're saying about synergizing as a group is exactly how the nightmare dungeons in TSW have to be played. You cannot go in with everyone doing their own thing and/or just running a solo build. Working out who's going to do which role is just another form of that synergizing. The limits come in the small number of abilities you can use at once, the highly specialized gear for each role and the fact that making a character that can heal, tank and dps at the same time in a nightmare dungeon is impossible. Even doing two of those things in a mediocre way requires extremely good gear with a highly specialized build and the knowledge/ability to use it. Not to say that the lower tiered dungeons can be bum rushed either, at the appropriate gear level, but they are a bit more forgiving.

[ckirmser]

Lack of collision? Meh. Although, even UO has collision.

My main issues with TSW are;

• Missions overly complex for no reason other than that they can,
• Limited character customization,
• And, admittedly probably more subjective than the first two, I was expecting more Cthulhu and less Night of the Living Dead.

Given there are a lot of firearms, I can understand their not having an AoC-type combat system; I mean, a trigger can only be pulled a limited number of ways. But, that being said, I wish they'd found some way to incorporate AoC-type combat with melee weapons.

[Suctum]

TSW is not AoC. If you were playing AoC at the time TSW was being developed, you would already harbor resentment against the game since the resources provided to AoC were cut one at a time, and you could tell. No meaningful updates outside T3 for almost 2 years after GS. They even put an advertisement on the AoC forums (which was met with severe disgust) and speedily removed. They then tried to lure you in with free beta keys with the purchase of the GS expansion and yearly subs.

If I wanted to try TSW, I would do so on my own. I don't need Funcom pointing me to the game and bribing me with freebies to play it. Likewise, the OP is about AoC, not TSW. Why anyone outside of an "off topic thread" would even post about TSW on a supportive AoC? If you knew the history of the two games you would know most AoC players find that insulting, at least the older ones.

At the end of the day, the OP is a great list of suggestions that Funcom should read. You can argue that I am wrong about AoC support being dropped after GS for TSW, but no one can argue the lack of updated new content since GS released...

[ckirmser]

I was playing AoC during TSW's development. I was excited at a Cthulhu-esque MMO. I bought a copy and let AoC slide. But, I discovered that my expectations were mistaken and that TSW was an inferior - albeit different - product.

So, I returned to AoC, even started subbing. I've not been back to TSW since.

[Suctum]

I was playing AoC during TSW's development. I was excited at a Cthulhu-esque MMO. I bought a copy and let AoC slide. But, I discovered that my expectations were mistaken and that TSW was an inferior - albeit different - product.

So, I returned to AoC, even started subbing. I've not been back to TSW since.

Had it been Lovecraftian, I could have been interested if it had been done true to that style. However, it's full of generic zombies, werewolves, urban legends, the boogeyman, and other nonsense which has no place in a true Cthulhu mythos. I would play a Cthulhu based game, but something like TSW is not that. You almost get closer to the mythos in AoC than you do in TSW.