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Thread: Stall vs. Counterweight(S&B)

  1. #1

    Default Stall vs. Counterweight(S&B)

    So, I was in a T4 with my T3/Khitai Guard when apparently a more "experienced" guard (aka better geared) told me I was doing it all wrong and shouldn't use Stall Of the Advance instead slotting counterweight/reckoning. I found this to be very counter-intuitive since Stall (I always thought) dished out far more aggro then the minor bump in damage from counterweight and the 200 damage from reckoning.

    So, need to ask all you pros here which exactly is better for absolute best aggro? Stall or fully feated counterweight? ..not to mention Stall is effectively 3 Cunning D's in a row...really makes slotting counterweight look like a complete waste.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valicard View Post
    So, I was in a T4 with my T3/Khitai Guard when apparently a more "experienced" guard (aka better geared) told me I was doing it all wrong and shouldn't use Stall Of the Advance instead slotting counterweight/reckoning. I found this to be very counter-intuitive since Stall (I always thought) dished out far more aggro then the minor bump in damage from counterweight and the 200 damage from reckoning.

    So, need to ask all you pros here which exactly is better for absolute best aggro? Stall or fully feated counterweight? ..not to mention Stall is effectively 3 Cunning D's in a row...really makes slotting counterweight look like a complete waste.
    Actually it doesn't really matter what you feat. Any good Dt will grab aggro from you within a few seconds, no matter if you use 'stall the advance' or 'counterweight', since the aggro plus from 'stall the advance' will run out after a few seconds anyway. And of course you need to switch aggro with other tanks, 'stall the advance' will not enable you to tank a boss in T4 for the entire fight.

    The only boss that a guard can tank quite well is the emporer. Here I personally tend to use counterweight instead of 'stall the advance'. Reason: You need to switch aggro all of the time anyway and the cd on 'stall the advance' is simply too long to use it effectively. But I have also done it with 'stall the advance' and nothing bad happened, since the other tanks were doing their job really well

    To sum it up, it is not a terrible mistake to use 'stall the advance'. Just do what you feel more comfortable with.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iomhair View Post
    Actually it doesn't really matter what you feat. Any good Dt will grab aggro from you within a few seconds, no matter if you use 'stall the advance' or 'counterweight', since the aggro plus from 'stall the advance' will run out after a few seconds anyway. And of course you need to switch aggro with other tanks, 'stall the advance' will not enable you to tank a boss in T4 for the entire fight.

    The only boss that a guard can tank quite well is the emporer. Here I personally tend to use counterweight instead of 'stall the advance'. Reason: You need to switch aggro all of the time anyway and the cd on 'stall the advance' is simply too long to use it effectively. But I have also done it with 'stall the advance' and nothing bad happened, since the other tanks were doing their job really well

    To sum it up, it is not a terrible mistake to use 'stall the advance'. Just do what you feel more comfortable with.
    Personally, I think Stall's cooldown should be lowered to a minute flat or even 45 seconds. But in terms of it being worse on aggro.. I just can't see it. Stall is an absolute monster aggro generator.

  4. #4

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    Stall is a very useful tanking skill to build up very high aggro in short period of time, and it works on all mobs which are hitting you, so it also helps you to hold high aggro on a group of mobs without switching to polearm. way better than CW imo. It also make guard much easier to solo tank, if you understand a boss very well, the damage deflected can be like 3 big heals or more. 2 mins for such amount of extra health is really useful. Moreover it is a must use AA to tank hard hitting boss, cunning+stall+strike&guard enable you to take 6-7 very big hits. I really don't think cw reckoning in defensive is very useful, maybe just better aggro in a long run. Learn to start using stall at 70-80% health, if you use it at low health, just pop it and stop any attack, any exp tank must able to get aggro from you. For solo pve, stall +frenzy stance is a very effective way to destroy massive number of mobs in short time.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    Stall is a very useful tanking skill to build up very high aggro in short period of time, and it works on all mobs which are hitting you, so it also helps you to hold high aggro on a group of mobs without switching to polearm. way better than CW imo. It also make guard much easier to solo tank, if you understand a boss very well, the damage deflected can be like 3 big heals or more. 2 mins for such amount of extra health is really useful. Moreover it is a must use AA to tank hard hitting boss, cunning+stall+strike&guard enable you to take 6-7 very big hits. I really don't think cw reckoning in defensive is very useful, maybe just better aggro in a long run. Learn to start using stall at 70-80% health, if you use it at low health, just pop it and stop any attack, any exp tank must able to get aggro from you. For solo pve, stall +frenzy stance is a very effective way to destroy massive number of mobs in short time.
    Right on. But from what I'm reading it is true that CW will let you get more aggro in the long run? Not that this matters as in the long run all aggro switches to a DT.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valicard View Post
    Right on. But from what I'm reading it is true that CW will let you get more aggro in the long run? Not that this matters as in the long run all aggro switches to a DT.
    Yes DT will get the aggro for entire fight. However, if DT is doing czy amount of dmg and need a aggro swap, goad+irritate+coh is not enough, but goad+irritate+coh+stall will helps.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    Yes DT will get the aggro for entire fight. However, if DT is doing czy amount of dmg and need a aggro swap, goad+irritate+coh is not enough, but goad+irritate+coh+stall will helps.
    Tested stall vs. counterweight/reckoning over on the WB(heavily favors a DT due to 0 magic resist) ... I think counterweight is better by a bit. I'm hanging onto aggro longer with it, but not 100% sure. My standard is against a dese-tali DT how long can I hang on for before eventual aggro lock by the DT.

  8. #8

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    I generally prefer CW for the dps and higher sustained aggro but stall is nice for hard hitting bosses or solo tanking, it's pretty much a bubble and the burst of hate is huge. Difference in in dps/aggro is not huge in the long run but stall is definitely a huge survivability boost and useful for bosses where you need burst-aggro.

    Btw reckoning with s&s can hit pretty hard even in def stance, I do 1k crits frequently on debuffed bosses.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    I generally prefer CW for the dps and higher sustained aggro but stall is nice for hard hitting bosses or solo tanking, it's pretty much a bubble and the burst of hate is huge. Difference in in dps/aggro is not huge in the long run but stall is definitely a huge survivability boost and useful for bosses where you need burst-aggro.

    Btw reckoning with s&s can hit pretty hard even in def stance, I do 1k crits frequently on debuffed bosses.
    Reason why CW is coming up more and more between guards is the fact that Counter-strike is not so useless anymore which would let you tap into champion spirit(which boosts your survivability considerably). Still uncertain which gives you more aggro in longer then 5 minute fights, CW or stall.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valicard View Post
    Reason why CW is coming up more and more between guards is the fact that Counter-strike is not so useless anymore which would let you tap into champion spirit(which boosts your survivability considerably). Still uncertain which gives you more aggro in longer then 5 minute fights, CW or stall.
    If you are playing against a skilled DT, then stall doesnt serve you any good in the long term because you need to be hit for stall to build agro. Even if you goad, FE, CoH, irritate, ( any other hate taunt) the DT will get agro back very soon after. Might as well go for the better dps option of counterweight/ champion spirit. Stall is really only meant for solo tanking, and supreme burst agro of (10-20 secs).

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