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Thread: Optimal group for necro in raid?

  1. #11

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    Ahhh you mean Static Charge from Curse of Set, I forgot that. So nice of you to remind me, Fass ^_^

    I didn't know Leviathans Call also had this, thats a nice additional bonus to use it for. I'll have to look into how it works exactly.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurvi View Post
    Ahhh you mean Static Charge from Curse of Set, I forgot that.

    I didn't know Leviathans Call also had this, thats a nice additional bonus to use it for. I'll have to look into how it works exactly.
    Ah yes. I thought it was Leviathan's Call exclusive, my bad .

  3. #13

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    dt's aura of dread fury is actually kind of nice -but: only lifestealer and blighted ones will procc this; not the mutilators.

    so why would one pick lifestealers or blighted ones over mutilators? because they have higher cadency (which means they do (for blighted ones: a lot of) more hits per minute than mutilators) so they procc resonance, bone horde and several other things more often. and the right proccs are what makes melee pets from good to awesome.
    additionally there are diminishing returns in the efficiency of the mutilator's procc. so if you have another necro with mutilators on the boss to ensure that the mutilate debuff is at x10 all the time (i think that requires like 5-6 mutis in total) you should setup yourself with like 3 mutilators and 5 blighted one's. even lifestealer's wont cause a damage loss given you have dread fury in your group!

    iirc dread fury added like 100dps on non-debuffed strawman - well blighted one's add spiritual torment themselves which can be quite an upside to debuff bosses faster
    Last edited by potlatch; 14th July 2014 at 17:16.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by potlatch View Post
    dt's aura of dread fury is actually kind of nice -but: only lifestealer and blighted ones will procc this; not the mutilators.

    so why would one pick lifestealers or blighted ones over mutilators? because they have higher cadency (which means they do (for blighted ones: a lot of) more hits per minute than mutilators) so they procc resonance, bone horde and several other things more often. and the right proccs are what makes melee pets from good to awesome.
    additionally there are diminishing returns in the efficiency of the mutilator's procc. so if you have another necro with mutilators on the boss to ensure that the mutilate debuff is at x10 all the time (i think that requires like 5-6 mutis in total) you should setup yourself with like 3 mutilators and 5 blighted one's. even lifestealer's wont cause a damage loss given you have dread fury in your group!

    iirc dread fury added like 100dps on non-debuffed strawman - well blighted one's add spiritual torment themselves which can be quite an upside to debuff bosses faster
    you got any parse to back that up?.
    in my xp 6 mutilators are what is required to maintain at all times stack 10 of mutilations dot, they do hit less often then blighted ones but the mutilations dot is more worth it then running 8 blighted ones.

    i tested this a lot and i always did in raids better dps using 2blighted+6 mutilators or 2 blighted+6corruptors then 8 blighted ones.
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  5. #15

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    Thanks a lot for detailed information, and also for a very nice discussion

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by -tomhet- View Post
    you got any parse to back that up?.
    in my xp 6 mutilators are what is required to maintain at all times stack 10 of mutilations dot, they do hit less often then blighted ones but the mutilations dot is more worth it then running 8 blighted ones.

    i tested this a lot and i always did in raids better dps using 2blighted+6 mutilators or 2 blighted+6corruptors then 8 blighted ones.
    i might have that parses on a different harddrive somewhere, but we did some intense testing on that matter the numbers -at least on a strawman- were pretty unambiguous;
    i cannot recall the exact numbers but a few things i remember:
    no matter which pet you choose, they all have the same dps when it comes to whitehits only. those zombies dudes have a pretty underwhelming unholy procc and since they neither procc dread fury nor have a high cadency they're out of discussion.
    mutilators add a responsive debuff -not a dot- that deals a certain amount of physical(?) damage with a certain chance when a mutilator hits a target with that very debuff. this debuff can only exist once on a target so all mutilators 'share' the same debuff, no matter who owns the mutilator.
    i think the mutilate procc was somewhere at 100dps, so in line with bone horde. now if you check, how mutilate corresponds to the the amount of proccs (again given another nec is making sure the debuff is at x10) you have a linear increase until 4 pets (so 4 mutilators deal 4 times the damage of a single mutilator with the mutilate procc) and then the efficiency drops down (i think it was like x5.5 with 8 mutilators).

    now then there is dread fury which almost deals the same damage as mutilate does, but not for the mutilators but only lifestealers and blighted one's.
    so they kinda even out. now add raid wide reactive proccs on top of that, especially the idol's resonance and most probably armageddon falls (didnt test that feat i must admit) which are WAY higher than the mutilate procc, and those proccs are highly connected to the cadency of your(pet's) attacks. i think the ratio of cadency for blighted/lifestealers/mutilators was something like 1.6/1.3/1

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by -tomhet- View Post
    you got any parse to back that up?.
    in my xp 6 mutilators are what is required to maintain at all times stack 10 of mutilations dot, they do hit less often then blighted ones but the mutilations dot is more worth it then running 8 blighted ones.

    i tested this a lot and i always did in raids better dps using 2blighted+6 mutilators or 2 blighted+6corruptors then 8 blighted ones.
    I parsed one of each pet for 3 mins the other day and got this result

    http://i.imgur.com/BUN9umK.jpg

    Blighted ones hit the fatest followed by life stealers but all of the pets seems to have same dps. The difference is in bone horde as some hit more frequent than others.

    Also everytime you refresh the mutilator stack it does damage so having multiplie necros with mutilators in one raid doesnt matter much.

    Depending on setup if you have like 3 toses then blighted ones should do the most damage as it will procc more frequent. Tested with 11 blighted ones with a tos removing cd on blue heal and it increased dps from 800ish with only 11 blighted to 2.1k with only pets attacking.. Pretty legit to get a dedicated tos spamming blue heal!

    Here some pics from when I tested 8 muti compared to 11.
    8 muti afk for 2.30
    http://i.imgur.com/TR2ntjK.jpg

    11 muti afk with tos for 2.30
    http://i.imgur.com/MHMR5le.jpg

    You can see mutilation got more hits with 11 pets rather than 8 and it's 20ish higher.

    I dont remember the parse anymore but I have one here with blighted ones doing 535.65dps which was 130 dps less than 8 mutilators. I will go test it again and see how it turns out .

    Quote Originally Posted by potlatch View Post
    i might have that parses on a different harddrive somewhere, but we did some intense testing on that matter the numbers -at least on a strawman- were pretty unambiguous;
    i cannot recall the exact numbers but a few things i remember:
    no matter which pet you choose, they all have the same dps when it comes to whitehits only. those zombies dudes have a pretty underwhelming unholy procc and since they neither procc dread fury nor have a high cadency they're out of discussion.
    mutilators add a responsive debuff -not a dot- that deals a certain amount of physical(?) damage with a certain chance when a mutilator hits a target with that very debuff. this debuff can only exist once on a target so all mutilators 'share' the same debuff, no matter who owns the mutilator.
    i think the mutilate procc was somewhere at 100dps, so in line with bone horde. now if you check, how mutilate corresponds to the the amount of proccs (again given another nec is making sure the debuff is at x10) you have a linear increase until 4 pets (so 4 mutilators deal 4 times the damage of a single mutilator with the mutilate procc) and then the efficiency drops down (i think it was like x5.5 with 8 mutilators).

    now then there is dread fury which almost deals the same damage as mutilate does, but not for the mutilators but only lifestealers and blighted one's.
    so they kinda even out. now add raid wide reactive proccs on top of that, especially the idol's resonance and most probably armageddon falls (didnt test that feat i must admit) which are WAY higher than the mutilate procc, and those proccs are highly connected to the cadency of your(pet's) attacks. i think the ratio of cadency for blighted/lifestealers/mutilators was something like 1.6/1.3/1
    I'll check out this dread fury and see if it's blighted/life exclusive.
    Last edited by Fass; 14th July 2014 at 18:27.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by potlatch View Post
    they all have the same dps when it comes to whitehits only. those zombies dudes have a pretty underwhelming unholy procc and since they neither procc dread fury nor have a high cadency they're out of discussion.
    all pets deal around same damage in white hits even made a thread with comparison.
    dread fury procs seems bugged it realy doesnt proc at all on some pets.
    corruptors proc is mostly worth it when you feat grim corruptor wich makes it proc more often.

    mutilators add a responsive debuff -not a dot- that deals a certain amount of physical(?) damage with a certain chance when a mutilator hits a target with that very debuff. this debuff can only exist once on a target so all mutilators 'share' the same debuff, no matter who owns the mutilator.
    mutilators proc mutilations dot on target wich stacks to 10, its similar to bonehoard only that at stack 10 does more consistent damage then bonehoard.
    it is a dot similar to bonehoard and carnage conq bleed dots
    and indeed only stacks on taget once so multiple necros using mutilators is counter productive.


    now then there is dread fury which almost deals the same damage as mutilate does, but not for the mutilators but only lifestealers and blighted one's.
    only nabs use lifestealers both corruptors and mutilators do better.



    now add raid wide reactive proccs on top of that, especially the idol's resonance and most probably armageddon falls
    yes blighted ones make armaggedon falls minutely more eficient, but you dont apply mutilations dot or have the unholy proc from corruptors so your gimping your dps, best is simply to spam parasite skulls from sw the more you have the more other classes will boost your dps, armaggedon falls included gets improved damage on boss the more melee pets you spawn to proc its damage.

    most of what your talking i already posted info on this thread:
    http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=184287
    where i would point out this:
    http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5214/f7mr.png

    on a naked character with no aa's corruptors and mutilators do better damage, particularly mutilators mainly due to mutilations dot

    crit rating+magic damage+crit damage on your gear +group buffs will enhance further that "naked dps" edge.
    Last edited by -tomhet-; 14th July 2014 at 19:32.
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  9. #19

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    At a minimum, necros should beg their raid leader to at least give them a conq and tos

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