DT & Conqs & You(nerfing isnt the answer)

[KullOfValusia]

sure some encounters you could go guardless.. but we uses 2 of them sometimes 3 for emperor in T4.. We clear T4 twice weekly and use guards in both raids.. So not sure on his data? We also have been clearing T4 for almost a year now..

+You can clear T4 without any guards. I've taken a healer role in many of these and I've seen it being done.

+Anyone can tank the emperor including DTs.

+Its better to tank with a DT letting your DPS go berserk and retain the triple DPS over a guard.

+the fact is the guard brings nothing to the table that a DT can do as well and on many occassions better. No one in this discussion has addressed this fundamental question.

+and who the *%%*- cares how long I've been on the forums. Remember the whole blood of a whore needed for that tortage quest.. yeah that was me who suggested it on the pre-development forums.

[Chillee]

+You can clear T4 without any guards. I've taken a healer role in many of these and I've seen it being done.

+Anyone can tank the emperor including DTs.

+Its better to tank with a DT letting your DPS go berserk and retain the triple DPS over a guard.

+the fact is the guard brings nothing to the table that a DT can do as well and on many occassions better. No one in this discussion has addressed this fundamental question.

+and who the *%%*- cares how long I've been on the forums. Remember the whole blood of a whore needed for that tortage quest.. yeah that was me who suggested it on the pre-development forums.

Wrong on most counts. DTs are OP and VOM needs nerfed, but when it comes to tanking a hard hitting magic boss or on bosses with high dmg resistances, guards are better.

DPS can go berserk in most cases on a boss with guards tanking. The DTs aggro advantage comes on bosses where aggro doesn't reset so they can get their dps rolling as the guard waits for his taunts to come off cd, and resistances are lower.

You can tank the emperor with all guards or all DTs, either, but why would you bother? Guards have more survival tools and quick aggro tools that make the emperor easier with them there.

Guards are also better on mobs that reset their aggro. Guardian burst aggro gives them the advantage there.

DTs can't triple the dps of a polearm guard, if the guard is changing stances appropriately. They can do double on some bosses, but on others, not even that.

[nikepilas]

A guardian knows his place, and it is good.

A guardian is an idea, a symbol, and unbreakable wall, an unstoppable force, an idol that young boys aspire to be and young girls dream of, he is a protector of the group, a leader of the pack, be brings fear in the enemies heart, he inspires envy in his fellow soldiers and he makes women moist and swoon in his presense.

Guardian is not a class you select, is a class that selects you. Not everyone is cut out to be a guardian, and those end up as conqs with shields. A sad sight indeed.

But most of all a guard dont complain, he evolves, adapts, and that is why the guard always has been good, and always will be good.

Epic. Thanks God there is still some emotion in this heartless grinding game.



.

[Loaf-of-Evil]

+and who the *%%*- cares how long I've been on the forums. Remember the whole blood of a whore needed for that tortage quest.. yeah that was me who suggested it on the pre-development forums.

So this is your other account doomkiller??

They pointed out how you claim to be an expert guard, when in reality, you only have a few short months maximum as a guard and apparently have no idea what you are talking about.

Soldiers need to be tuned down, definitlely. Everyone already agrees. Most everything else you say is rubish.

Giggity.

[Krixus]

+the fact is the guard brings nothing to the table that a DT can do as well and on many occassions better. No one in this discussion has addressed this fundamental question.

If you're only referring to T4 then this may be the true, I don't know since I've never tanked with my DT in T4.

Other places it really depends on the encounter and the type of gear the DT has.

When I first went into T3 at the early stages my co-guard and I tanked Louhi in full blues with white gems, since guards rely on hate and not dps we didn't have many problems.

I doubt I would be able to do it on my DT without others pulling agro since I would have to sacrifice a lot of my DPS.

Most DTs solely rely on DPS and more specifically VOM and CR to tank. Take that away and only the exceptional DTs will be able to tank.

Now with the fearless souls set its much different since that offers Prot and CR.

I personally find that tanking is much more controlled and agro swapping is much more easier when well played guardians/conqs tank.

Early stages of the game and some encounters guards are better if not at the same level as DTs.

Encounters where high dps is needed at the start of the fight I think guards and conqs are better suited because of the high hate generation of those 2 tanks. (I'm not saying DT's can't do it)

Lastly In my opinion guards require some skill to be able to play well at end game, specifically when it comes to threat generation and swapping agro with other tanks. While DTs just need gear and AA's (DTs that have skill are clearly distinguished from the reroll lot) .

This is solely my opinion and I'm sure there are exceptions to this.


BTW I have seen a guard that has completely locked out DTs in T4, he was in a guild on Crom called Destiny, don't know if he still plays though.

[KullOfValusia]

I'm beginning to think very few of you here have ever stepped foot in T4 with a guard. The only boss in there that's guard friendly is the emperor and his golems(which can be done by anyone even a conq). My statement is again 100% true, toward the very end game this class is very much not needed and can be considered dead weight since other classes do it far more effectively. I'm not going to even begin talking about 6 mans. You absolutely positively want a DT for those. (and frankly with the population the way it is ..isn't that the bulk of the game now?)

If in the distant future T5 were to come out with bosses that have 80% magic mitigation and have reflective damage against any DPS higher then 500. Sure, I would change my tune. But that just isn't the case for now.

[Krixus]

The only boss in there that's guard friendly is the emperor and his golems

Lol.

I don't think there is any point me saying anything anymore.
To each his own I guess..

[Chillee]

I'm beginning to think very few of you here have ever stepped foot in T4 with a guard. The only boss in there that's guard friendly is the emperor and his golems(which can be done by anyone even a conq). My statement is again 100% true, toward the very end game this class is very much not needed and can be considered dead weight since other classes do it far more effectively. I'm not going to even begin talking about 6 mans. You absolutely positively want a DT for those. (and frankly with the population the way it is ..isn't that the bulk of the game now?)

If in the distant future T5 were to come out with bosses that have 80% magic mitigation and have reflective damage against any DPS higher then 500. Sure, I would change my tune. But that just isn't the case for now.

LOL you have no clue about T4 or how to play guard. You start with an absurd point, that the other 10 classes should be buffed to match the OP classes, and your arguements went downhill from there.

If you aren't doomkiller, you're at least his soulmate.

[Bvis]

So my guard is like a month old and at 80. But I could never understand what last stand guard ability does?

I'm beginning to think very few of you here have ever stepped foot in T4 with a guard. The only boss in there that's guard friendly is the emperor and his golems(which can be done by anyone even a conq)

How many guards who don't know what last stand is have been doing T4 lately?

[KullOfValusia]

Again, not a single logical argument against the initial premise. Where are guards needed? Emperor? No, can be done by anyone. Anything else? NO ANSWER.

My case stands at T4 the very endgame. Guards are just not needed, they can get the job done... but why when DTs can do it better?