A Solo Raid

[Kurt2013]

I was focusing of the topic. I don't mean create a single path, but "leading people" to do a logical progression with obvious "freedom".

But giving out the actual end game with an option to solo farming it, would be a mistake. Giving a taste/sample which motivate people to team up to obtain, would be better.
The fun part isn't "to get stuff" but trying to get it.

I was not disagreeing there, just pointing out that it might not be a bad idea to follow the OPs point of allowing other gamestyles access to the "new content" sooner or later. Imo yes, it would not be a good idea to do this right away or to open alternatives that are faster or easier than the "intended" way. But a token system per definition should serve as a time cap that makes sure that after a reasonable amount of time every player interested in the content (if i keep playing lvl1-79 it is obvious i don't need loot from lvl85+ mobs) can get a few pieces of their own choice (which atm is not given in AoC, be it the "reasonable" time or the amount of luck in case of weapons).

[Kurt2013]

Well, raiders can choke on their epic gear. I'd just like to see simple solo versions of all dungeons for the sake of storytelling and completing quests, which dungeon grinders care nothing about anyway. Give me bags of obsidian eggs, I don't care. Just allow me to finish the story, because I suspect there's a lot of it to be told in, say, Khitai.

Forget reading the dialog with NPCs or finishing that cinematic at the end of Enigmata of Yag which might have shed some light on what on earth's going on in that dreadfully designed nightmare of a dungeon, or how it relates to one of the most famous stories about Conan. Forget about all that, because "social gaming" is all about hurrying up and rushing to the next dungeon to get trophies.

Somewhere the soul of storytelling in computer gaming lies bleeding on the ground, killed by a demon of greed and pride wearing T4 gear.

This!
One solution would be to open up content with scaling instances. You could choose to follow the storyline solo or with a few friends that way, without injustice or inbalancing the game. Problem is just, that you would have to work on code allowing this in a non (or hard to) exploitable way. Still doable imo and worth it (same with random instances, but that's another topic). Adding more and more tiers that require a huge workload of devpower through all departments with a small playerbase profiting from it, seems not the best choice compared to creating longterm goals (like scaling stuff or random elements). But that is funcoms choice...

Personally i gave up after months already to follow the storyline once i hit 80. Even in khitai it is nice to see the world from different faction angles, but it stops again or slows down to a stop when it comes to KK or Paikang (where you usually concentrate on one or two chars). One reason i like the thread cins made about the pve tactics, because it allows to glimpse a bit into what to expect, even if you would never see the content in one lifetime.

[Texan615]

T4 for a restricted elite. I don't know where you play but it must be a deserted server.

I think that half the population on Crom wears T4 gear, and i believe it must be the same on Fury and most likely Set.

T4 has spread quite nicely.

As for Set, there are only 6 guilds that clear T4, so that's probably only 150-200 people.

[Naerri]

Doomkiller just wait for the server merge and stop this insanity solo bs. Then u can join some guild thats doing T4, there are many of them here. Thats it.

[Chillee]

As for Set, there are only 6 guilds that clear T4, so that's probably only 150-200 people.

Yes, but RN alone has that many players, it seems.......

And a new guild took down the general the other day.

[cins]

Well, raiders can choke on their epic gear. I'd just like to see simple solo versions of all dungeons for the sake of storytelling and completing quests, which dungeon grinders care nothing about anyway. Give me bags of obsidian eggs, I don't care. Just allow me to finish the story, because I suspect there's a lot of it to be told in, say, Khitai.

Forget reading the dialog with NPCs or finishing that cinematic at the end of Enigmata of Yag which might have shed some light on what on earth's going on in that dreadfully designed nightmare of a dungeon, or how it relates to one of the most famous stories about Conan. Forget about all that, because "social gaming" is all about hurrying up and rushing to the next dungeon to get trophies.

Somewhere the soul of storytelling in computer gaming lies bleeding on the ground, killed by a demon of greed and pride wearing T4 gear.

This guy is %100 correct (also a bit too melodramatic). Raiding and loot can go **** themselves. Large scale raiding is a stupid idea conceived at a time dumber than today, it's one of the innumerable shitty grind induction ideas they threw at a wall to see if it'd stick. And virtual stuff with big numbers printed on are for losers trying to compensate for something (unfortunately there's a loooot of such losers who have the vidjagame=ph4t l00t idea lodged firmly into their skulls who violently resist anything approaching sanity [who should've been confined into a room with soft walls to play Diablo and its cousins forever]).

There's just TWO things a video game of any kind can ever offer: story and challenge. A game with great story can be loved and played even if it's badly made/bugged/too easy/too hard/unfun. A game with awesome challenge/balance/gameplay with zero story can also be adored and played much. An MMO is no exception, the only things it offers are story (quests, cutscenes, dialogs) and challenge (pve, pvp). Insert long and pointless argument about social aspects here.

The thing that makes pve raiding difficult is organizing and directing all those players. This is a bad type of game difficulty, it'd be equally difficult to organize 24 people for a picnic or to build a house. This sort of difficulty has nothing to do with gaming, therefore it's not a thing to be proud of for a game. Insert long and pointless argument about social aspects of gaming here.

Grouping for dungeons OTOH, is a good thing. I'd be much happier if it was for 3 or 4 people, but 6 is also all right. It provides the aforementioned challenge (in a variable form from Atzel to T'ian'an) while not bogging down everyone with troubles of a crowd. You don't (usually) spend more time waiting for something than playing the damn game. Contrary to popular belief, more is not the merrier, especially when the more is from a pool of random people off the internet.

[-tomhet-]

Doomkiller, lolz, you are so stupid, if you really want to get your T4 stuff then join T4 raiding guild and stop qqing, if you can't join any then the reason is one and simple, you are not good enough, l2p and stop qqing. Btw Aoc is a MMO GAME not single player game... Jesus

just waiting for next infraction point, i can't stand ppl's stupidity.

+1
/10chars

[Bortukali]

again, why do solo players need RAID GEAR, no matter its level??????

the only reason to solo the t4 "AREA" is to complete the quests, and if that happens, the rewards should not be the same, and no raids tokens rewards...

theres a lot of gear options on the faction, gear to solo play, gear to speciafic feat builds, gear to raid, gear best for certain fights, etc etc etc, why do pp want raid tokens without going into raids and why they need the raid gear if they are going to play solo???? any blue gear on trader or dropped on solo stuff is enough to enjoy solo playing this game, no need to group/raid, the only reason i see pp wanting raid tokens without earning them is for pure vanity, and not vanity armor, for power armor, to say to other: OHHH look i have t4 gear, i am great, i can now join the pug groups that say the famous "BLA,BLA,BLA", i am a pro like many others that spent hours raiding to actually earn it.... no matter the gear that you have or AA advancement (some exceptions), if you dont know how to play, you are useless in groups all the time

[kalston]

This guy is %100 correct (also a bit too melodramatic). Raiding and loot can go **** themselves. Large scale raiding is a stupid idea conceived at a time dumber than today, it's one of the innumerable shitty grind induction ideas they threw at a wall to see if it'd stick. And virtual stuff with big numbers printed on are for losers trying to compensate for something (unfortunately there's a loooot of such losers who have the vidjagame=ph4t l00t idea lodged firmly into their skulls who violently resist anything approaching sanity [who should've been confined into a room with soft walls to play Diablo and its cousins forever]).

There's just TWO things a video game of any kind can ever offer: story and challenge. A game with great story can be loved and played even if it's badly made/bugged/too easy/too hard/unfun. A game with awesome challenge/balance/gameplay with zero story can also be adored and played much. An MMO is no exception, the only things it offers are story (quests, cutscenes, dialogs) and challenge (pve, pvp). Insert long and pointless argument about social aspects here.

The thing that makes pve raiding difficult is organizing and directing all those players. This is a bad type of game difficulty, it'd be equally difficult to organize 24 people for a picnic or to build a house. This sort of difficulty has nothing to do with gaming, therefore it's not a thing to be proud of for a game. Insert long and pointless argument about social aspects of gaming here.

Grouping for dungeons OTOH, is a good thing. I'd be much happier if it was for 3 or 4 people, but 6 is also all right. It provides the aforementioned challenge (in a variable form from Atzel to T'ian'an) while not bogging down everyone with troubles of a crowd. You don't (usually) spend more time waiting for something than playing the damn game. Contrary to popular belief, more is not the merrier, especially when the more is from a pool of random people off the internet.

This is very true. I personally don't raid much (can spend months without raiding) for the simple reason that I hate it (too many people, too many **** ups and in the end I'm not even a gear whore). Also raids require you to be online on a specific day and at a specific hour (unless you join random pugs but pug raids are always a mess), that's not my cup of tea. I want to log on and play when I feel like it. I know some people love traditional raids but I just don't and I'm not alone. It has nothing to do with being "good enough". I can join ANY guild I want on Fury if I want to farm t4 but I choose not to.

And now that the population is so low I'm thinking that dungeons for less than 6 people would be great (yes I know you can do some HMs with less than 6 but it's not actually intended though and requires to have only top notch players). I'm not interested in 100% solo instances though (instances that scale with the number of players are okay still) but I'd welcome some stuff for groups ranging from 2 to 6 and that give meaningful rewards (atm that would be at least rares, moas, insignias and such).

[Zarkane]

solo mmo: is it a new concept?