Builds

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Originally Posted by stiiixy

So, chaos ensues, and I'm left standing on my altar looking like a right fool, and incapable of producing anything meaningful to the raid as backup. Or run away /*cough* kite.

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If **** hits the fan and I'm in spellweave, I merely press the spellweave button again and low and behold, 0.1 seconds later, I am just as mobile as you.

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Originally Posted by stiiixy

Oh, and I quite often end up easily being top 5 on parsers. There's always a smart arse though who beats me, but I'm not really impressed =D Again, parsers are open to intepretation (AE builds in a mob pull fest? pffft)

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Well, as you said, the raids you typically attend are shattered/drunk, so it's no surprise that you are able to be so high on the parse without spellweaving. I prefer to just load up my "Tanks are crap" build, heavy into general for more hate decrease & then spellweave.
Most of the parses I see people post are meaningless, be one from "All Encounters", or a Guildstats parse on a fight where there is a lot of irrelevant AoE damage (i.e. Zodiac, Athyr Bast). Selective parsing through ACT paints a much clearer picture.

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Originally Posted by Wabajack

If **** hits the fan and I'm in spellweave, I merely press the spellweave button again and low and behold, 0.1 seconds later, I am just as mobile as you.


Well, as you said, the raids you typically attend are shattered/drunk, so it's no surprise that you are able to be so high on the parse without spellweaving. I prefer to just load up my "Tanks are crap" build, heavy into general for more hate decrease & then spellweave.
Most of the parses I see people post are meaningless, be one from "All Encounters", or a Guildstats parse on a fight where there is a lot of irrelevant AoE damage (i.e. Zodiac, Athyr Bast). Selective parsing through ACT paints a much clearer picture.

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I'd do the same, except I only have a couple feat tree's already set for other things =D I just haven't gotten around to tweaking them out yet, since my main Demo's on Rage and obviously raid's are few and far between, there =D Again, I only play them when I'm (fall out of your chair) drunk (or power-levelling, the second feat build) because they're so easy. Should see my brother and I on DOTA2 when we're shot. Shockin!

Anyway, parser's do help. You can spot what's giving you results, and what's not. Then you can ask more questions about why. What a lot of people dont realise about raid parsing is the abilities people are using (or not using) that make certain spell's/abilities better (sorry not preaching to you here, just the universe in general) which is why you really need to play with other people and ask what they're doing, especially if you dont see debuff's that help the group's make-up.

Ultimately for me, a parser isn't about the numbers and is akin to a brick in the wall to get to the top by learning the innies and outties of your toons.

I have not found this specifically discussed yet in the thread, so here we go. What would you consider the best PVE spec/rotation DPS wise for a fight where it is at least risky if not outright stupid to get within 8 meters of the target, i.e. a pure ranged fight. I am explicitly not talking Entity only. Instead consider it a general theoretical thought exercise with practical applications, the 20 yard demonologist. :)

The best I could come up with was the classical Havoc/Conflag hybrid, something like http://goo.gl/BBoqH2, and as Rotation go

Hellfire Stream - Shockstrike - <gap> - Hellfire Stream - Shockstrike - <gap> - repeat

where <gap> is to be filled with whatever instant is currently available (Shock, Shock lance, Unholy Hate, Pacts, etc...). If no filler is available, cast the next Shockblast immediately and don't wait for Hellfire Stream. Chaotic Blast when needed.

Is there really nothing better or at least compareable out there?

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Originally Posted by Belatsunat

I have not found this specifically discussed yet in the thread, so here we go. What would you consider the best PVE spec/rotation DPS wise for a fight where it is at least risky if not outright stupid to get within 8 meters of the target, i.e. a pure ranged fight. I am explicitly not talking Entity only. Instead consider it a general theoretical thought exercise with practical applications, the 20 yard demonologist. :)

The best I could come up with was the classical Havoc/Conflag hybrid, something like http://goo.gl/BBoqH2, and as Rotation go

Hellfire Stream - Shockstrike - <gap> - Hellfire Stream - Shockstrike - <gap> - repeat

where <gap> is to be filled with whatever instant is currently available (Shock, Shock lance, Unholy Hate, Pacts, etc...). If no filler is available, cast the next Shockblast immediately and don't wait for Hellfire Stream. Chaotic Blast when needed.

Is there really nothing better or at least compareable out there?

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Use foG instead of shockstrike,keep that magic dmg up ,shock and hf stream on cd,shocklance as that filler preferably when it's above 3 stacks ,cacodemon and bindings for class perks.

http://goo.gl/wmUJcR

I am certain someone will QQ about consume flames but it's good.

Alternatively demonic heart is good too and unholy hate is matter of personal preference.I prefer to have it.

Are the five points in Fury of the Underworld really worth it?

According to this post they in total increase the pet's crit chance by approximately a whopping one percent.

Seeing how mana hungry a FoG build can be I would think those points are better spent in mana regeneration talents, like Earth Recharge.

Earth recharge procc rate and mana replenished on those spells is really crappy.Only worth it if it proccs in shockblast/inferno of amher which you won't use much.

My pet gets up to 20-25% crit with it and there is nothing else improving it ,SWing or not.You can choose what to take as correct and feat what you want accordingly ,those pts are not a major difference in dps but on same time there is nothing better to go down the tree.Earth recharge effect is too minor even in 5 pts and chained shockstirke is pointless unless you have more than one target plus this is a FoG based build.

What is the highest general purpose DPS build that has 17 points in the general tree, i.e. Misdirection slotted? Yes I am starting to have aggro problems and experimenting with ways to fix the issue. :)

Sadly it is impossible to have Pact of Earthwalking, Combustion and Misdirection all in one build, so the question boils down to which of them to dump I would guess.

P.S: Or would it be wiser to only invest 11 points into the general tree and try something like this: http://goo.gl/J5xxfZ

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Originally Posted by Belatsunat

What is the highest general purpose DPS build that has 17 points in the general tree, i.e. Misdirection slotted? Yes I am starting to have aggro problems and experimenting with ways to fix the issue. :)

Sadly it is impossible to have Pact of Earthwalking, Combustion and Misdirection all in one build, so the question boils down to which of them to dump I would guess.

P.S: Or would it be wiser to only invest 11 points into the general tree and try something like this: http://goo.gl/J5xxfZ

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PotEW is a must for all PvE demos, extra dps and green heal makes a huge difference for the group. For PvE, nothing is needed in the conflag tree to boost dps significantly at all. Sure the +5% crit chance on WoF and incinerate proc are ok, but dont merit the 20+ points needed to reach it. the points are better invested in general tree with agro drop and +72 magin damage like this...http://goo.gl/y9v7OW

you can run Caco and either (RoF or bindings) as AAs.
Great team support spec that hits 2K dps in alot of situations.

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Originally Posted by Belatsunat

What is the highest general purpose DPS build that has 17 points in the general tree, i.e. Misdirection slotted? Yes I am starting to have aggro problems and experimenting with ways to fix the issue. :)

Sadly it is impossible to have Pact of Earthwalking, Combustion and Misdirection all in one build, so the question boils down to which of them to dump I would guess.

P.S: Or would it be wiser to only invest 11 points into the general tree and try something like this: http://goo.gl/J5xxfZ

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Blame the tanks! The dps always gets the hate for taking agro off a tank. Who SHOULD be getting hate for that is incapable tanks or offtanks. General dps logic applies, if you do se the tank stopping hits to lose agro, you should definitely stop dps as well. In fights with agro debuffs in effect, the same applies. Also, mind me asking but which fight are you having agro problems on?

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Originally Posted by Dodgeball

PotEW is a must for all PvE demos, extra dps and green heal makes a huge difference for the group. For PvE, nothing is needed in the conflag tree to boost dps significantly at all. Sure the +5% crit chance on WoF and incinerate proc are ok, but dont merit the 20+ points needed to reach it. the points are better invested in general tree with agro drop and +72 magin damage like this...http://goo.gl/y9v7OW

you can run Caco and either (RoF or bindings) as AAs.
Great team support spec that hits 2K dps in alot of situations.

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Yeah sure that build is nice enough as an Havoc AoE build on one tab in a feat window. But I count 16 points in Havoc that is unnecessary and does not improve damage unless it is 2+ mobs in area of effect.. Misdirection has its uses, but if Planar Shift is used as a preemptive tool to control agro, and there are good tanks, I rarely pull agro on boss fights with zero points in general.

This just is more value for points. http://goo.gl/Z9IStZ . The only argument I see against is incinerates and intense heat eating PoD stacks - which is fair enough.

As for team support, the points in Conflagration adds faster debuffing, another CC, group buffing through Unholy Hate, and another instant CC in Detonation.

Two variations of course where one could spec Amassed Flames along with splash on FoG, but personally I value Shock Lance more often to be more contributary than 7 points for a damage buff that would disappear after every WoF. The discussion has been had before through the 25 pages of this thread..

Ive been leveling a demo as a nice way to ease myself back into aoc & its great fun but im just wondering about builds & those listed above.

Is it best to have a hybrid flame/shock or ok to go down one tree? Only asking as aesthetically I find i enjoy playing as a more fire themed mage so have specced him that way thus far, what if anything am i missing as from the original branches of the trees they just seem like a copy/paste of each other but just flame/shock differences..

Any advice/info would be appreciated:)

Cheers