15 posts from FC devs on TSW forums

[Doomkiller]

AOC has bad coding
Devs hav a hard time changing things
Lack of resources make it harder
PvP community is not wrong either
U can blame the original coders for this mess

[Petridish]

That's quite different than blaming the PVP community for their lack of participation.

No, it's not, it's part and parcel of the same issue.

They have neglected PvP in this game long enough such that the PvP community comes across as bitter, and arguably they should be. Why did Funcom neglect PvP for so long? Because it wasn't making them enough money (or they didn't believe it was making them enough money ... who really knows, they have metrics that we do not).

Now, given that Funcom needs to deal with this disgruntled group on this forum (and an extremely vocal one, at that), any time they post anything on here ... well, doesn't take a genius to figure out why they are 'shy' around here.

Think about it.

Funcom posts PvE thread, cops it from PvP crowd because they're spending time on PvE, despite metrics that may indicate to them that this is the best 'bang for buck' that they can do right now given the abilities of the current team.

Funcom posts PvP thread, cops it from PvP crowd because they don't agree with what they are doing (e.g. removal of premades), or they think it's stupid (e.g. Bori), or they don't see it as an issue (e.g. combo cancel/skip/whatever), and so on.

They know they've burnt a lot of people, but they just don't want to deal with it anymore, or they are unable to deal with it due to the money / resourcing problem I stated before.

[Bukkithedd]

Playing devil's advocate here, but maybe it's because TSW doesn't have an extremely hostile PvP community to deal with?

It's not just the PvP-community that has it's fair share of blame to take for this. There's been plenty of extreme hostility from us PvE'ers as well, as well as from RP'ers.

I'd blame the community as a whole, not just the PvP'ers. Hell, their anger is at least understandable, given the neglect they've been shown for the last 5 years.

[Mellaus]

There are wrong things too in TSW, mainly for PvP (surprise), yet, FC employees posting there don't get harassed by raging retards in every thread they take part in.

Since those FC employees go on the forums on their free time, as in they're not paid for it and they don't have to do it, they just chose what's best for them.

I believe this is just the bottom line :
On AoC forums, no FC employee can say a thing without several ragers jumping into the thread to qq and hijack it, making any conversation impossible.
On TSW forum, they can actually discuss like civilized people.

[Kurt2013]

Tossing millions after something you're not likely to realise a return on makes perfect sense though eh? Especially after you've just done exactly that on another one of your games (TSW) and it didn't really turn out that well. They just don't have the resources left to do it again.

You need to draw a line somewhere. That's what they've done. I'm not saying it's right, or acceptable, or anything of the sort. But that's how it is.

So, doing regular BASIC maintenance, documentation and bugfixing and following one or two EASY suggestions (e.g. tournament queue, change in one formula and a few line of code for open world pvp) or doing copy&paste content would cost millions?

If they think so, they are really foolish (or have a really bad consultant). They have perfectly unique games (one scifi, one licenced low fantasy and a modern one) and they manage to reduce their profit with that focus, imo. Releasing new pve content can be costly sure, but why do they do this instead of cheaper and easier things...or why not both (at reasonable paces)?

Look at how happy an easy bugfix made the customers and how they jump on "new" (or rather revamped) content. Don't tell me this is more expensive than creating whole new zones?

It is their right and choice to do as they do and focus this and then that. Fine, but you absolutely need to maintain a constant skeletion crew (if only for shouting "hey, something got bugged or broken here!") and a minimum of professionalism and care. And at the very least, if you choose to wholy focus first here and then there...be honest about it and don't blame the customer for any losses or problems. You CAN avoid making you inhouse competition, but somehow they failed to do that (but other companies are very good at this too, so you can't really blame them full here).

Look at the past year...most good changes came from player suggestions, tech support came from players on forums, help came from players on forums and ingame. The GMs are still polite and helpful mostly, but somehow got reduced powers and mostly tell you "we are aware of the issue and have forwarded it. thank you and have a nice day".

Don't get me wrong, the halloween event was good, the new unchained modes are good probably and the "unlock" option was a really good move, too. They might even have people working on the background here. This makes it all the sadder, that they did a rather big pve update like a ninja patch and don't seem to care about proper communication channels (no, they do NOT respond to private bug/exploit reports on TL, too).

On a positive side, i doubt they have given up their older games totally, but we can not expect wonders. But paying customers should get a bit more in return than what we have now. Not much...just a bit, to make the argumentation of "we have not given up and still care" appear plausible and get rid of the "we just finish what was promised, but it is no fun for us" feeling.

[Kurt2013]

There are wrong things too in TSW, mainly for PvP (surprise), yet, FC employees posting there don't get harassed by raging retards in every thread they take part in.

Since those FC employees go on the forums on their free time, as in they're not paid for it and they don't have to do it, they just chose what's best for them.

I believe this is just the bottom line :
On AoC forums, no FC employee can say a thing without several ragers jumping into the thread to qq and hijack it, making any conversation impossible.
On TSW forum, they can actually discuss like civilized people.

First, this is simply NOT true. The sound makes the music and the way you shout in the woods, the way it echoes. Just look at the responses here and in TL (especially the feedback threads) and i am sure the TSW forums have their own share of forum warriors and trolls.

Second, this exactly might be the problem. As officials it should be part of their job to NOT try and make opinion in their free time under their official names. If they use a private one, they can do as they like, but if someone uses an official tag, the customer expects (and rightly so) a minimum of honesty and professionalism. Getting provoked by trolls and ignoring others does not count to me as this. And when at work, you simply can not pick only the raisins.

Third, ever tried to actually wonder why there are ragers and which ones of them you can ignore and which might have a point still, within all the rage? If you rage, you still care. If you don't, you don't play, don't pay and still give bad background advertisement. Judge yourself what is better. If you find the common ground why the ragers rage, maybe you can adress that issue as well? (no need to listen to them literally, but as professional you should at least read, listen and then ask yourselves "do they have a point or not?")

Fourth, believing you can censor or erase history is a grave error. Though it is understandable people prefer dealing with people sharing their views and beliefs, this does not make the others disappear. And in terms of customers...it IS possible to turn things around. Good changes have been always appreciated here (5 year event, halloween etc.) as well, while bad changes have been rightfully criticised (don't expect to be applauded for invisible horses or a "sort chars on login screen" that is not even working). That's how it works. And if you communicate and care, you can turn bad things into good things. But ignoring problems will not make them go away or magically get fixed on their own. And as i said, the way you treat one customer is an advertisement for others (good and bad, but the bad feedback will most likely not be as easy to track as the good and then you wonder "where are all the people?").

Just get back to do the good work you do on AoC professionally and at "feelable" intervalls (e.g. the appearance, that there is at least someone who constantly plays, monitors and works on it), and you will get the recognition you deserve.

Suggestions:
- don't let the devs post under official tags in their spare time or pay them for it and don't punish them, if they post under a private tag
- introduce a weekly/bi-weekly or monthly maintenance where at least "some" issues/bugs etc. are fixed AND document it to avoid unfixing through a ninja change later
- Keep adding (slowly, everyone knwos you focus elsewhere) stuff that is connected to old content (i recently did the architect quests and revisiting old areas and old contacts might be the key here!)
- do not change or revamp too much, rather add more options
- check the pvp forums and do what everyone there agrees on (if such a diverse and hostile crowd finds a common ground, there MUST be a point to that)

[di85ll]

No, it's not, it's part and parcel of the same issue.

They have neglected PvP in this game long enough such that the PvP community comes across as bitter, and arguably they should be. Why did Funcom neglect PvP for so long? Because it wasn't making them enough money (or they didn't believe it was making them enough money ... who really knows, they have metrics that we do not).

Now, given that Funcom needs to deal with this disgruntled group on this forum (and an extremely vocal one, at that), any time they post anything on here ... well, doesn't take a genius to figure out why they are 'shy' around here.

Think about it.

Funcom posts PvE thread, cops it from PvP crowd because they're spending time on PvE, despite metrics that may indicate to them that this is the best 'bang for buck' that they can do right now given the abilities of the current team.

Funcom posts PvP thread, cops it from PvP crowd because they don't agree with what they are doing (e.g. removal of premades), or they think it's stupid (e.g. Bori), or they don't see it as an issue (e.g. combo cancel/skip/whatever), and so on.

They know they've burnt a lot of people, but they just don't want to deal with it anymore, or they are unable to deal with it due to the money / resourcing problem I stated before.

You start off by saying the pvp community was neglected. I think that's wrong. We got lots of pvp content:

Removal of white sands on pvp servers
deathwish
Bori
seiges
Removal of combo canceling
removal of k/d
addition of guards
pvp bosses (worked on then scrapped)

I can go on.

Had resources been spent on better pvp ideas, maybe, just maybe the pvp community wouldn't be so bitter.

Unchained pvp mini's is the best pvp idea so far, it's something they can build upon. Hope thy actually release it.

[K4nnyc]

That's quite different than blaming the PVP community for their lack of participation.

You can draw a line financially and say "no more money sorry".
You can also ignore the pvp community and fail to develop any pvp content for 5 years.


So... It's possible to do both.

[FirepowahQQ]

AOC has bad coding
Devs hav a hard time changing things
Lack of resources make it harder
PvP community is not wrong either
U can blame the original coders for this mess

Go
back
to
school
and
learn
to
write

[twinklez3]

You start off by saying the pvp community was neglected. I think that's wrong. We got lots of pvp content:

Removal of white sands on pvp servers
deathwish
Bori
seiges
Removal of combo canceling
removal of k/d
addition of guards
pvp bosses (worked on then scrapped)

I can go on.

Had resources been spent on better pvp ideas, maybe, just maybe the pvp community wouldn't be so bitter.

Unchained pvp mini's is the best pvp idea so far, it's something they can build upon. Hope thy actually release it.

1. make a small change to bori(body parts dropping)
2. release a survey, ask if people like the change
3. the resounding response is "yes"
4. use that as evidence that the players like bori