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Thread: pvp armor rebalanced on TL

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalkerfan View Post
    1. Wont unchained minis fix all of kennys qq??

    2. To expect to start an MMO which is this old and be able to compete straight away is delusional.....go play Counterstrike.
    1. Unchained minis is 1 minigame map. Not a revamp of the entire minigame system. Dont think it's some sort of holy fvcking grail that will solve all the problems. So to answer your question: No.

    2. This is 100% the reason pvp in AOC is dead. 100% the reason.
    Players farm gear to dominate and easily kill new players or undergeared players before they start to pvp. This is Fact and has been the sum of AOCs 6 year pvp history. You cant argue this, it's incontestable and every vet has seen it or been a part of this fvcked up system.

    The new patch goes towards fixing this - but it does not go far enough. You need to get the pvp gear stats closer together for the pvp sets so its 5%-10% maximum from the worst to the best gear.

    This will enable them to balance classes, balance feats and balance gears.

    There should be a forum every month where vets can go to submit requests to balance items/classes/gears/feats - where funcom will answer us and reply. We've gone years with no fixes or tweaks to OP classes and feats, this needs to be a thing of the past.

    And all the stats I mentioned, particularly the behavioral stats - they are necessary. People will play for the fun of playing, building your characters good/bad stats is enough for people you dont need to give them power items.
    Last edited by K4nnyc; 21st March 2014 at 16:34.
    Pvp in AOC is Awesome!

  2. #82

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    If you are a pvp 10 demo and can't beat 80% of the classes in 1v1 that's a skill problem not a class problem. DT are still op while we die little faster because we lost Prot and armor change play style little bit still top kills and really don't see that changing even if they Nerf vom.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by K4nnyc View Post
    People will play for the fun of playing
    In that regard, I think most beginners are agro'ed off the PvP by many ppls group attitudes.
    Newbies being told that they cripple a team, are noobs and generally derided alienates many to the whole PvP aspect in AoC.

  4. #84

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    This gear is really nice change and getting to pvp 4 is relative fast. But problem for strict pvper and fresh char is slow progress of AA points.
    i know its been said something will be done about it and hopefully it will be soon.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by K4nnyc View Post

    2. This is 100% the reason pvp in AOC is dead. 100% the reason.
    Players farm gear to dominate and easily kill new players or undergeared players before they start to pvp. This is Fact and has been the sum of AOCs 6 year pvp history. You cant argue this, it's incontestable and every vet has seen it or been a part of this fvcked up system.
    True, the real problem is that AoC is a FPS - mmorpg, only k/d ratio and e-peen matters for the majority of pvp ''prolol'' players.

  6. #86

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    What funcom needs to understand is, that they do not earn money by subs alone and that ANY active player is a potential money machine. Even when in theory pvp looks like free content for some, it isn't if you want to be successfull. There is still the starter gear, the AAs and more options and easier to access through luck gear in pve.

    Sure, it is easier to control, if you move all the power into content costing money. But even assuming you have 1 sub player unto 10 f2p players...without the 10 others he would be alone and not pay in the future either. While in this scenario the 10 others are both potential subs AND players willing to spend money in the shop, if they like it.

    Therefore there HAS to be something (fun, options etc.) for f2p too, that encourages playing TOGETHER.

    Again, i think what they did was a good move in the right direction, but the gap is still there. They just increased the number of veterans or older players with better pvp gear this way. Others still have to grind money, tokens or blue pve gear in a tad more hostile environment. The options these people have now is to either buy (too expensive and not accountbound) shop equipment, join the khitai grind (subbing) or die a lot and get demotivated. So, please do not stop here and think it is fixed, because it isn't. There is still the first option to fix (less expensive, accountbound option) and the third to avoid (by keeping a look at the progression curve and/or making even dying and loosing fun).

    When the progression through pvp curve is fixed, then there will still be unchained minis and some open world consequence system to add (as well as fixing bori at least for pyres >> digging).

    Also pvp progression NEEDS players...to do minis, to do open world and other group stuff. Without variety there too, you will have premades (pregroups over voice or guild chat signing) dominating and manipulating or the effect of cheating very high as well as a more feelable gap. All this is not motivating.
    Last edited by Kurt2013; 22nd March 2014 at 12:49.

  7. #87

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    I still can't fathom how all of you sit here and cry about how Funcom doesn't listen after paying and playing this game for the last 5 to 6 years.

    Seriously, wipe the drool off your chins.

    Funcom cares about one thing and one thing only, money. Even their greedy ex Game Manager proved that by trying to manipulate the stock exchange. They don't care about you, all they want is that green you offer them every month for a game that is not even worth a cent after the butchery they have done to it.

    Stop feeding the man and open your eyes. The game sucks for PVP, it has no content and their concept of content is to make you grind countless hours for a piece of gear so you have to keep paying another month subscription fee to pay their bills.

    Brain dead.

  8. #88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrubberducky View Post
    If you are a pvp 10 demo and can't beat 80% of the classes in 1v1 that's a skill problem not a class problem. DT are still op while we die little faster because we lost Prot and armor change play style little bit still top kills and really don't see that changing even if they Nerf vom.
    Balacai seems to believe that the DT is underpowered. He clearly has a skill issue in regard to classes.

  9. #89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by K4nnyc View Post
    2. This is 100% the reason pvp in AOC is dead. 100% the reason.
    Players farm gear to dominate and easily kill new players or undergeared players before they start to pvp. This is Fact and has been the sum of AOCs 6 year pvp history. You cant argue this, it's incontestable and every vet has seen it or been a part of this fvcked up system.
    That's rather onesided. When gear didn't matter, up to 1.05, PvPers didn't give a damn about gear and mainly farmed T0.5 for the looks. Those raiding being PvE geeks. Even during gemme era the amount of players using them was low enough not to make it that bad.

    When the gear change arrived everything got turned upside down. On the server i was on 80 to 90% of the PvP was done in open-world. And it's a heck of a bad way to XP, especially if you're PvPing in groupes (the point of an MMO i believe).
    So there was two options after 1.05:
    • change the way you play and do a lot more of mini-games to keep up with the gear race and thus leaving aside open-world a bit.
    • Continue doing mainly/exclusively open-world PvP and slowly but surely be outgeared by those who chose the first option.

    A lot of guilds collapsed and PvPers left the game when they didn't have enough play time to reach PvP 4 with open-world/duels/and minimal minis. Gearing up became a neccissity and not everyone was keen on farming minis to achieve that.

    You can like or dislike the concept of gear race but it is here.
    • You can chose not to participate at all in that race so you keep playing the game how you initially liked to play it, but then you'll get out-geared by everyone and your combative potential will shrink to the point you can't PvP anymore.
    • You can chose to participate softly, so you have an acceptable compromise. Have decent gear to keep up without changing completely your gamestyle.
    • You can chose to throw yourself completely in the race and have the best gear possible. But it might mean you'll have to radicaly change how you play the game.


    Initially most of the PvP was guild vs guild. Therefore falling too far behind gear wise was the promise of mean spankings. You wanted to keep competitive, you had to get the gear. Get the best gear so you can crush your ennemies in Keshatta and Sieges and not get crushed by them because they farmed gear so they wouldn't get crushed by your guild who was farming gear not get crushed by their guild who ... Vicious circle...

    But not everyone can follow that pace. Top guilds farm top gear so they can keep competing with each others. But smaller guilds can't do the same and fall behind preventing them from competing with top guilds. Especially true in big fights were individual skill will be outpowered by T4 demos AoE and the frame rate drop. The major turning point of that was when T3 weapons started to hatch in the hands of all the players of the top guilds. T3 crafted wepons and T4 gear made it worse.

    Today when you start PvPing you have a choice to make. Either start straight away and get your ass whiped by vets in top tear gear. Or farm gear to reach the minimal threshold to be able to compete.
    So i believe most people don't farm gear to be able to farm undergeared or new players. They farm gear so they don't get farmed by fully geared vets.
    You'll have noticed that a huge amount of decent players have ego issues when it comes to PvP and simply hate getting killed by players they consider as 'noobs'. That only kill them because they are more, because they have better gear , because they play a noob class with a noob spec, [insert more random excuses].
    Getting the top gear straight away is kind of a check list. "Gear done ! Now i can sololy focus and skilling up and having fun". It was one of the arguments of mean bori diggers: "I get PvP 10 in a month that way i wont have to work for gear for the next year !"

    Regarding newbies
    'Farming' (by that i mostly mean killing) newbies and undergeared players is normal. Of course it depends of some factors but generally when you're in a 1 vs 2 situation or worse, you gank the squishiest of them all first. When i play my sin if i have a tortage gear demo and a PvP 10 demo against me. I'll quickly one shot the tortage gear demo so the ****er won't stun me while i got the PvP 10 one on his ass ready to get killed.
    An other situation. You're team is getting farmed and you don't like leaving minis so you keep fighting. Who are you going to go for ? Fully geared players you have little chance to manage to kill before his team mates help him ? Or the under-geared player you might just have a shot at killing before you get ported on the rezpad.

    I've played most characters in PvP starting with green gear. And while on Conq and Guard my aggro was super low. On HoX and Necro they were super high. Now that all these chars are PvP 5+ ... well it's still the same, the squishy ones get focused while the others don't. Main diffrence being that now i have decent changes of killing those who attack me. Therefore instead of going 5-20 i can go 15-10. Sure you get chased further the squishier you get because the odds of you catching up with an badly geared toon is higher than when it's an older char (AAs for better running and the gear diffrence on your side allowing you to have high chances of killing the guy fast enough, before he can reach his friends). We all get bloodthirsty at times in PvP.

    The main problem with AoC's PvP is it's solo PvP. In minis it's aweful. It feels like you've been thrown in an arena, chained to 5 other guys you don't give a damn about and you have to make the best of it.
    PvP being, kill your ennemies and try not to get killed. It results in some not so interesting minis. And since it's been like that for years now even inside the same guild, most people don't give a **** about each others outside raids and don't play together, don't communicate. Fully individualistic PvP content.
    No guild pride to defend, no reputation either since there's no community.

    Bottom line:
    I sincerly disagree with this simplistic idea that says that players gear up just to farm noobs. I think the state of mini-games has three reasons:
    • It's solo PvP
    • Open-world shrank, mini-games became solo, sieges crashed. No guild PvP goal they stopped caring and left their players do what ever they liked. Community took an arrow to the knee.
    • Gear race pushing players to PvE forgetting their PvP origins and pushing towards a 'professionalization" of the game. Bring up the maths and kill the sport.

    Give players a diffrent environment and you'll have a completely diffrent attitude. For instance, on the French servers, untill the merge with Fury, rezpad farming didn't happen nor did bringing the flag on the rezpad. Insulting and flaming on groupe chat was kept at a minimum because guilds valued their reputation and officers tamed the wild ones amongst them. Teamplay was decent because of guild reputation. You'ld get kicked from most guilds if you would AFK in a corner during tough minis or not hit your guildies. And you'ld be laughed of if you refused to assist an open-world ennemie who ended in your groupe during a mini.
    Same players, diffrent environement, diffrent attitudes.

    Sorry... had been in need to write some wall of text for a while
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  10. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vehl View Post
    That's rather onesided. When gear didn't matter, up to 1.05, PvPers didn't give a damn about gear and mainly farmed T0.5 for the looks. Those raiding being PvE geeks. Even during gemme era the amount of players using them was low enough not to make it that bad.

    When the gear change arrived everything got turned upside down. On the server i was on 80 to 90% of the PvP was done in open-world. And it's a heck of a bad way to XP, especially if you're PvPing in groupes (the point of an MMO i believe).
    So there was two options after 1.05:
    • change the way you play and do a lot more of mini-games to keep up with the gear race and thus leaving aside open-world a bit.
    • Continue doing mainly/exclusively open-world PvP and slowly but surely be outgeared by those who chose the first option.

    A lot of guilds collapsed and PvPers left the game when they didn't have enough play time to reach PvP 4 with open-world/duels/and minimal minis. Gearing up became a neccissity and not everyone was keen on farming minis to achieve that.

    You can like or dislike the concept of gear race but it is here.
    • You can chose not to participate at all in that race so you keep playing the game how you initially liked to play it, but then you'll get out-geared by everyone and your combative potential will shrink to the point you can't PvP anymore.
    • You can chose to participate softly, so you have an acceptable compromise. Have decent gear to keep up without changing completely your gamestyle.
    • You can chose to throw yourself completely in the race and have the best gear possible. But it might mean you'll have to radicaly change how you play the game.


    Initially most of the PvP was guild vs guild. Therefore falling too far behind gear wise was the promise of mean spankings. You wanted to keep competitive, you had to get the gear. Get the best gear so you can crush your ennemies in Keshatta and Sieges and not get crushed by them because they farmed gear so they wouldn't get crushed by your guild who was farming gear not get crushed by their guild who ... Vicious circle...

    But not everyone can follow that pace. Top guilds farm top gear so they can keep competing with each others. But smaller guilds can't do the same and fall behind preventing them from competing with top guilds. Especially true in big fights were individual skill will be outpowered by T4 demos AoE and the frame rate drop. The major turning point of that was when T3 weapons started to hatch in the hands of all the players of the top guilds. T3 crafted wepons and T4 gear made it worse.

    Today when you start PvPing you have a choice to make. Either start straight away and get your ass whiped by vets in top tear gear. Or farm gear to reach the minimal threshold to be able to compete.
    So i believe most people don't farm gear to be able to farm undergeared or new players. They farm gear so they don't get farmed by fully geared vets.
    You'll have noticed that a huge amount of decent players have ego issues when it comes to PvP and simply hate getting killed by players they consider as 'noobs'. That only kill them because they are more, because they have better gear , because they play a noob class with a noob spec, [insert more random excuses].
    Getting the top gear straight away is kind of a check list. "Gear done ! Now i can sololy focus and skilling up and having fun". It was one of the arguments of mean bori diggers: "I get PvP 10 in a month that way i wont have to work for gear for the next year !"

    Regarding newbies
    'Farming' (by that i mostly mean killing) newbies and undergeared players is normal. Of course it depends of some factors but generally when you're in a 1 vs 2 situation or worse, you gank the squishiest of them all first. When i play my sin if i have a tortage gear demo and a PvP 10 demo against me. I'll quickly one shot the tortage gear demo so the ****er won't stun me while i got the PvP 10 one on his ass ready to get killed.
    An other situation. You're team is getting farmed and you don't like leaving minis so you keep fighting. Who are you going to go for ? Fully geared players you have little chance to manage to kill before his team mates help him ? Or the under-geared player you might just have a shot at killing before you get ported on the rezpad.

    I've played most characters in PvP starting with green gear. And while on Conq and Guard my aggro was super low. On HoX and Necro they were super high. Now that all these chars are PvP 5+ ... well it's still the same, the squishy ones get focused while the others don't. Main diffrence being that now i have decent changes of killing those who attack me. Therefore instead of going 5-20 i can go 15-10. Sure you get chased further the squishier you get because the odds of you catching up with an badly geared toon is higher than when it's an older char (AAs for better running and the gear diffrence on your side allowing you to have high chances of killing the guy fast enough, before he can reach his friends). We all get bloodthirsty at times in PvP.

    The main problem with AoC's PvP is it's solo PvP. In minis it's aweful. It feels like you've been thrown in an arena, chained to 5 other guys you don't give a damn about and you have to make the best of it.
    PvP being, kill your ennemies and try not to get killed. It results in some not so interesting minis. And since it's been like that for years now even inside the same guild, most people don't give a **** about each others outside raids and don't play together, don't communicate. Fully individualistic PvP content.
    No guild pride to defend, no reputation either since there's no community.

    Bottom line:
    I sincerly disagree with this simplistic idea that says that players gear up just to farm noobs. I think the state of mini-games has three reasons:
    • It's solo PvP
    • Open-world shrank, mini-games became solo, sieges crashed. No guild PvP goal they stopped caring and left their players do what ever they liked. Community took an arrow to the knee.
    • Gear race pushing players to PvE forgetting their PvP origins and pushing towards a 'professionalization" of the game. Bring up the maths and kill the sport.

    Give players a diffrent environment and you'll have a completely diffrent attitude. For instance, on the French servers, untill the merge with Fury, rezpad farming didn't happen nor did bringing the flag on the rezpad. Insulting and flaming on groupe chat was kept at a minimum because guilds valued their reputation and officers tamed the wild ones amongst them. Teamplay was decent because of guild reputation. You'ld get kicked from most guilds if you would AFK in a corner during tough minis or not hit your guildies. And you'ld be laughed of if you refused to assist an open-world ennemie who ended in your groupe during a mini.
    Same players, diffrent environement, diffrent attitudes.

    Sorry... had been in need to write some wall of text for a while
    Just to let you know, all of that organized thought will equate to nothing in Funcom's books. You just wasted 30 minutes of your life writing an essay, I know this because I use to do it when I had hope.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6WJD...8BoTB0yvRERREA

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