The Hooray ? Consists of ... ?

[Slith]

fun fact, AoC was never supposed to be a pve game

I asked this very question to the GOD of AOC development aka Gaute Godager:

have you developed AOC as a PVP centric game or PVE centric? Or perhaps have you tried to reach some kind of optimal balance between those two types of content?

Anwser:
We said we tried to do both. But I guess we didn't really believe the game could stand on its own without good PVE, and felt that not many PvP centric games made it big, back then - so PVE drove the development. It changes with time. I might have made it differently today.

http://aochideout.blogspot.com/2013/...e-godager.html

So the fact is that PVE drove the development.

[Suctum]

Thx for posting some facts Rath

Comming from a guy who made big promises and delivered on very few of them. He never completed the game and launched it anyways. Why would he admit it was a failure compared to what he showed pre-release. As far as a pve game, what did it have to offer in its first two years? Epic kesh, t1 and some glitches exploitable t2, onyx chambers?. The pve was bad, pure and simple. The only redeeming quality was gear was hardly a factor and right at 80 you could be competitive with crafted or blue gear. No grind, no AA, no tokens. That and the combat system and loose ffa PvP which lead to great drama made it a great game. Bit if you want to beluve someone terminated from his position for multiple reasons say its a pve game years after the fact, go ahead.

Pve driven is not the same as saying it's a pve game. The content that never came to us, recruitable box mercenaries, guild city drives, capital cities, tower combat, could all be cassifed as pve driven content even though it's primarily PvP content. Anyone saying at launch though, will remember the pve got very lame after tortage and a few starting city quests. The original dungeons were terrible, and t1 and t2 were effortless.

[Noobody]

Comming from a guy who made big promises and delivered on very few of them. He never completed the game and launched it anyways. Why would he admit it was a failure compared to what he showed pre-release. As far as a pve game, what did it have to offer in its first two years? Epic kesh, t1 and some glitches exploitable t2, onyx chambers?. The pve was bad, pure and simple. The only redeeming quality was gear was hardly a factor and right at 80 you could be competitive with crafted or blue gear. No grind, no AA, no tokens. That and the combat system and loose ffa PvP which lead to great drama made it a great game. Bit if you want to beluve someone terminated from his position for multiple reasons say its a pve game years after the fact, go ahead.

Of course million people jumped in for the bloody action combat and conan, there is nothing epic or even conan in bashing a ragdoll with 1.000.000 hp while standing still with 23 other people and move when the script told you so.

- Heroic stat on all pve raid gear
- no intensive pve AA grind required to compete
- pvp in all zones including city hubs
- end game competitive gear from open world and craft and no token!!
- ranger had combo
- assassin had stances
- no crit rating on every soldier and priest gear (raiders had to combine best dps and best survive on same gear cos it was outrageous that kithai had a better dps gear even without the survivability)

after years of devlopment under another direction (copying wow end game model while people who like that model will just stick to wow in the end..), we can see this game turned from massive equivalence pvp/pve to niche desesperate spoil pve.

[Derled]

pff. read Rath's post. This is not the first time he posted that link, now he actually provide facts...

Ps. I have been pvp'ing in various games since Doom1 so pls, spare me the crap.

I don't pvp in AOC since that part of the game in my opinion is a broken mess. There are plenty of better pvp games out there.

the **** has doom to do with aoc pvp?
its broken mess ofc because of funcom decided to push for pve, and make aoc #2 wow clone

Of course million people jumped in for the bloody action combat and conan, there is nothing epic or even conan in bashing a ragdoll with 1.000.000 hp while standing still with 23 other people and move when the script told you so.

- Heroic stat on all pve raid gear
- no intensive pve AA grind required to compete
- pvp in all zones including city hubs
- end game competitive gear from open world and craft and no token!!
- ranger had combo
- assassin had stances
- no crit rating on every soldier and priest gear (raiders had to combine best dps and best survive on same gear cos it was outrageous that kithai had a better dps gear even without the survivability)

after years of devlopment under another direction (copying wow end game model while people who like that model will just stick to wow in the end..), we can see this game turned from massive equivalence pvp/pve to niche desesperate spoil pve.

In nutshell, its called "wannabe pve game"

[ckirmser]

In nutshell, its called "wannabe pve game"

Wrong.

It's called, "great PvE game."

Just because you dislike it, in no way alters that fact.

[Rathothis]

Comming from a guy who made big promises and delivered on very few of them. He never completed the game and launched it anyways. Why would he admit it was a failure compared to what he showed pre-release. As far as a pve game, what did it have to offer in its first two years? Epic kesh, t1 and some glitches exploitable t2, onyx chambers?. The pve was bad, pure and simple. The only redeeming quality was gear was hardly a factor and right at 80 you could be competitive with crafted or blue gear. No grind, no AA, no tokens. That and the combat system and loose ffa PvP which lead to great drama made it a great game. Bit if you want to beluve someone terminated from his position for multiple reasons say its a pve game years after the fact, go ahead.

Pve driven is not the same as saying it's a pve game. The content that never came to us, recruitable box mercenaries, guild city drives, capital cities, tower combat, could all be cassifed as pve driven content even though it's primarily PvP content. Anyone saying at launch though, will remember the pve got very lame after tortage and a few starting city quests. The original dungeons were terrible, and t1 and t2 were effortless.

You make it sound as if you were in a position to second-guess what the original AoC team was trying to achieve, in spite of Gaute's very clear answer to Slith's question. But in fact, you only conflate two very distinct issues: (i) what the AoC team was aiming at, and (ii) the state of the game at launch.

We all know the game was launched early. While we don't know the exact reasons for this, the best guess is that it was because Eidos pulled the plug, due to their own financial troubles. The result was that a lot of PvE content was unfinished at launch. A lot of the unfinished content was introduced (sometimes much) later, while some never saw the light of day.

What this means is that you cannot equate the game's state at launch with what the AoC team had been trying to achieve. Of course PvE-focused players left the game in droves, due to content gaps in the leveling ranges and the dearth of endgame PvE content. But assuming that FC meant for this to happen is somewhat ridiculous.

It's an entirely different question whether FC should have reacted to this by focusing on PvP, instead of jumping on the WoW-train under Mr Morrison's direction. I personally think that his focus on vertical power progression did more harm than good. But this has nothing to do with what the original team intended, and how the game was marketed.

[Derled]

Wrong.

It's called, "great PvE game."

Just because you dislike it, in no way alters that fact.

great pve game? wery old game with low amount of content, broken content, filled with annoying glitches and bugs,
I never said I dislike it, and I did enjoy getting my sin to full t5, Im just not trying to be a fanboy here defending something that im not happy about, been paying sub + item shop stuff for years, and what we got? tell me. facts are facts, no need to deny them, U cant even go ardashir fort without swimming across the whole dungeon or shark eating u from otherside of map

You make it sound as if you were in a position to second-guess what the original AoC team was trying to achieve, in spite of Gaute's very clear answer to Slith's question. But in fact, you only conflate two very distinct issues: (i) what the AoC team was aiming at, and (ii) the state of the game at launch.

We all know the game was launched early. While we don't know the exact reasons for this, the best guess is that it was because Eidos pulled the plug, due to their own financial troubles. The result was that a lot of PvE content was unfinished at launch. A lot of the unfinished content was introduced (sometimes much) later, while some never saw the light of day.

What this means is that you cannot equate the game's state at launch with what the AoC team had been trying to achieve. Of course PvE-focused players left the game in droves, due to content gaps in the leveling ranges and the dearth of endgame PvE content. But assuming that FC meant for this to happen is somewhat ridiculous.

It's an entirely different question whether FC should have reacted to this by focusing on PvP, instead of jumping on the WoW-train under Mr Morrison's direction. I personally think that his focus on vertical power progression did more harm than good. But this has nothing to do with what the original team intended, and how the game was marketed.

What I rememb from what I were promised back in the years is, Mounted PVP combat, Sieges (pvp, obiviously), drunken battles, world pvp. No one told me I were forced to go farm THOUSANDS of khitai dungeons to be competive in the pvp, I love aoc but when funcom listen to minority of the community this is what happens should have listened to people that could have actually bring cash to their bank account

Also, if I rememb correctly what Erling Ellingsen said PVP being HUGE part of this game

[Anzu]

If you want to quote several posts, use a text editor or edit your previous message. Do not post several messages in a row.

And as always, keep it civil and constructive.

[ckirmser]

great pve game?

Yes.

Compared to others I've played, very yes. Granted, my only others are UO, Everquest and LotRO - Champions, SWtOR and TSW not being "in-genre" - so maybe there are others out there of which I am not aware that are better.

But, being unaware of them means AoC beats them.

wery old game with low amount of content, broken content, filled with annoying glitches and bugs

Old doesn't matter. Just because something is old, doesn't make it less fun. I'd have a lot more fun in an old Camaro, than I would in a brand new Prius.

As for content, I haven't noticed any lack of quantity. My characters are leveling up nicely, so there's enough for that; what else matters? Granted, I'd like to see some additions; pickpocketing, combat from horseback, housing (UO-style housing, specifically), the ability to hire - or, by some other means acquire - NPC companions so that those who play solo can take on multi-player quests, a UO-style merchant and economy system and a more in-depth romance system, to name a few.

I've not encountered much broken content. That which I have has been resolved by petition or game fixes, so nothing earthshattering. Glitches and bugs are something that will never go away 100%; I can live with the few that are there - for example, my horse becoming suddenly transparent when changing locations.

been paying sub + item shop stuff for years, and what we got? tell me.

Years of inexpensive entertainment?

What I rememb from what I were promised back in the years is, Mounted PVP combat, Sieges (pvp, obiviously), drunken battles, world pvp. No one told me I were forced to go farm THOUSANDS of khitai dungeons to be competive in the pvp, I love aoc but when funcom listen to minority of the community this is what happens should have listened to people that could have actually bring cash to their bank account

Also, if I rememb correctly what Erling Ellingsen said PVP being HUGE part of this game

Well, for my money, PvP is a bore. Fighting other players when one should be HELPING other players is a turn-off to me. Now, fighting those players who become criminal because of their acts, like is done in UO? That I could get my teeth into. But, to fight each other just to fight each other is meaningless, contrived, out of context and just plain boring.

Put in a criminal system where players who kill innocents or do other socially unacceptable things can be taken on, perhaps with an associated reward, and that I can go for. But, not just the juvenile schoolyard rumble just because you can.

[Rathothis]

What I rememb from what I were promised back in the years is, Mounted PVP combat, Sieges (pvp, obiviously), drunken battles, world pvp. No one told me I were forced to go farm THOUSANDS of khitai dungeons to be competive in the pvp, I love aoc but when funcom listen to minority of the community this is what happens should have listened to people that could have actually bring cash to their bank account

Also, if I rememb correctly what Erling Ellingsen said PVP being HUGE part of this game

Well, you probably remember the PvP part better, because that's what you were most interested in. Similarly, hardcore PvEers presumably were more interested in the PvE bits. As a raider, you would probably have expected three raid tiers to be available at launch - see this preview by IGN. And many casuals presumably weren't interested too much in either, but simply joined for the graphics, soundtrack, or bewbs.

Truth is, Funcom tried to appeal to the widest possible audience, and thus marketed AoC as a mixed bag of goodies. But if Gaute says that internally, they believed that the PvE aspects were most important, we're quite unlikely to prove him wrong.