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Thread: Daggers.

  1. #11

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    Base damage on your offhand weapon determines damage from your offhand hits so yes, it does matter although is it not all that much of your total dps.
    No, it is not only the dexterity, combat rating, crit rating, hit rating and critical damage rating on the offhand weapon that make a difference.

    Check vid if you want to know how to test it yourself.

    https://youtu.be/oAGsdgJU0WI
    Last edited by Caudilloo; 29th June 2015 at 22:37.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caudilloo View Post
    Base damage on your offhand weapon determines damage from your offhand hits so yes, it does matter although is it not all that much of your total dps.
    No, it is not only the dexterity, combat rating, crit rating, hit rating and critical damage rating on the offhand weapon that make a difference.

    Check vid if you want to know how to test it yourself.

    https://youtu.be/oAGsdgJU0WI
    i did see that one it acualy maters what dps your offhand has but its such small dps so you rather go for good stats then dps in offhand

  3. #13

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    Fury of the void main hand ,hyrkanian offhand,there is no better combo below t3,5 gear or crafting spine of dagon

    Until you get those athyr bast dagger is quite decent offhand,t3 requiem on pain looks good on paper with the higher base dps but with fury+hyrkanian+bb gear you break a certain crit % that pays off more at that level of gear

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shink- View Post
    Fury of the void main hand ,hyrkanian offhand,there is no better combo below t3,5 gear or crafting spine of dagon

    Until you get those athyr bast dagger is quite decent offhand,t3 requiem on pain looks good on paper with the higher base dps but with fury+hyrkanian+bb gear you break a certain crit % that pays off more at that level of gear
    hmm ok might do that i only need some rep to get hyrkaninan dagger :P

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caudilloo View Post
    Base damage on your offhand weapon determines damage from your offhand hits so yes, it does matter although is it not all that much of your total dps.
    No, it is not only the dexterity, combat rating, crit rating, hit rating and critical damage rating on the offhand weapon that make a difference.

    Check vid if you want to know how to test it yourself.

    https://youtu.be/oAGsdgJU0WI

    Well for offhand hits it matters a wee little bit. But does anyone care to prioritize that? On a geared Assassin with the "right" feats, offhand damage is often from 4-5% of a total damage on a parse.

    I'm looking at a parse from last weeks Zodiac and Emperor raid with sadly more than a few wipes. We had two sins in raid, and both are pretty decent players. They had 4,76% and 4,71% damage from offhand.

    Now, I reversed your test, Caudillo. I put a low dps weapon in offhand on a BB geared sin. First six offhand hits are with Dagger of Envy's Fury with 75.1 dps

    [08:20:23] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 300.
    [08:20:24] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 242.
    [08:20:26] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 302.
    [08:20:27] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 316.
    [08:20:28] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 273.
    [08:20:29] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 218.

    Average result 275.

    These next ones are with the same gear, just swapping the offhand out for a lvl 28 green weapon with 15,7 dps.

    [08:21:02] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 161.
    [08:21:03] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 170.
    [08:21:05] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 161.
    [08:21:13] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 188.
    [08:21:14] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 166.
    [08:21:24] Your offhand pierces Straw Man for 176.

    Average result 170.

    How many % did we increase the offhand base dps with? We increased it with 380%
    How many % did we increase the offhand damage with? We increased it with 60%

    Now of course when one say that stats matter, and biggest base dps weapon should be on mainhand, that does not imply that it is recommended to run around with a 3 dps bottle or a 15 dps butter knife, or like on your video stripping all damage gear to remove the flat combat rating buff to offhand. The stats on the offhand matters more, because that buffs most of the remanining damage that makes up your parse. You have to consider what makes 95% of your damage get higher, not the 5% offhand. Does it matter having a 75 dps or 82 dps offhand weapon? When increasing from 15.7 dps to 75.1 dps and only getting 60% increase on offhand, imagine the neglible difference of replacing Dagger of Envy's Fury 75.1 dps with a Tickler of the Autumn Night 82.8 dps in offhand. It would actually make a bigger difference to your offhand if you are grouped with a mage that grants you Enchanter.

  6. #16

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    I love the fact that still people parse offhands incorrectly.

    In my parses offhands are about 10%.Also that is without counting offhand crits.It does crit but then it registers as white hit in combat log ,so it's not as easy to parse and have an accurate estimation...

    That being said prioritizing stats on offhand seems to be the correct choice either way however i wouldn't rule out a significant weapon damage difference that easily.Which in turn doesn't help to conclude anything since those daggers over t3,5 ,t4 are already better in stats(everything overall) anyway in comparison with previous gear discussed here and so if you have them you use them instead without needing to dig into these details.
    Last edited by -Shink-; 30th June 2015 at 08:53.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shink- View Post
    I love the fact that still people parse offhands incorrectly.

    In my parses offhands are about 10%.Also that is without counting offhand crits.It does crit but then it registers as white hit in combat log ,so it's not as easy to parse and have an accurate estimation...

    That being said prioritizing stats seems to be the correct choice either way however i wouldn't rule out a significant weapon damage difference that easily.Which in turn doesn't help to conclude anything since those daggers over t3,5,t4 are already better in stats(everythign overall) anyway in comparison with previous gear discussed gear discussed and so if you have them you use them instead without needing to dig into these details.
    Yes, offhand crits is merged with the white hits portion and is not as far as I know possible to separate from the main hand white damage crits and combo openers/steps. Critical % is known and also critical damage rating, so it's not the hardest part to calculate towards an estimate. With 25% crits and 80% extra crit dmg, the 4,7% offhand becomes an extra 2,1% or thereabout, which is credited on white damage.

    This is without doubt nitpicking. If offhand damage is 10% of a Sins damage on a parse, I'd like to see that parse and if it is indeed one target being struck.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shink- View Post
    Fury of the void main hand ,hyrkanian offhand,there is no better combo below t3,5 gear or crafting spine of dagon
    Comparing the Hyrkanian dagger with Envy's Fury it has:
    +0.5 base DPS
    -81 Combat rating
    +11 Critical Rating
    -27 Hate Decrease Rating
    +54 Fatality Rating
    +17 Critical Damage Rating
    +65 Offhand Rating

    To me it would be a defensible choice to prefer Envy's Fury as offhand for group PvE. For everything else the Hyrkanian dagger is undoubtedly better.

    You consider Fury of the Void a better mainhand than Requiem of Pain? Is this because of the lack of crit rating on Requiem, which does have the higher base DPS? (Serious question)
    Last edited by Belatsunat; 30th June 2015 at 13:28.

  9. #19

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    It is because fury+hyrkanian in bb gear makes you break over 25% crit (26% exactly if i remember correctly) which at least from my parses back then proved to be the best combo over the rest same tiered daggers outweighing the base dps difference with requiem.Someone could argue on minus hate from envy's fury as offhand but when you have your perks sorted it is of no consequence in my opinion.

  10. #20

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    If you do T4 or above you get better daggers than trying to think which t2 or equivalent dagger is better. Just do some memory cloud farms (which are pugged all the time), there you go, problem solved. All this theory-crafting on this thread is nonsense, just go get some t4 daggers.
    Doomsayer 2008

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