can't decide between necro and demo

[Sarhal]

Numbers of kills can be deceptive in pugs, since its impossible to determine how's game went and oftenly it could be quite retarded and non focusing against necro. That's why I specially mentioned that it was a premade. There (at least on Fury) u cant go SW and drop dots to leech, coz if u go SW alot it means insta death in most cases, in premades necro always have at least 1 guy who always at him so spellweaving is rather rare.

About cc'ing im not really having trouble using necro aoe fear, snare, stun and root + ofc epithur, I even sometimes use Unholy Hands. So for me is quite good utility, besides as getting SW is really good thing and the thing which u cant afford in general, aoe fear which preserves ur weaving becomes really priceless.

Main high points of necro vs demo is uncomparable damage :> That in general i can get contrallable instant burst about 5k-6k when i need quite easy on necro.

[Tapp]

Demo is OP necro needs more skillweave, and FC rules the roost by not letting us play the mini's cos everything is so borked , /redface fc?

[Suctum]

Indeed its supersad, all demos like projections of each other now ;/

Omg Suctum, you play demo and necro both and saying they are equale :< Just sad. They are on diffrent levels simply. How come the necro CC somewhat fails? Its quite good and even more wide range than demo have, only demo advantage in cc component is insta kb.

Lets take for an example premades and your words about winning demos, this weekend game,

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/4343/07y1.jpg

The demo in blue team (Redimba - Zajigalochka) on screenshot by far more skilled than necro in their team, and result u see is quite opposite to player's skills, so this classes far from being even :>

First of all, both are equally threatening. In t4 gear, each has stupid amounts of burst potential. As a matter of fact, when it comes to direct damage bursts I usually have more trouble from the necro than I do a demo.

Next, who premades? Premades represent such a low percentage of played pvp that on the US servers you can count on 1 hand all the ones that actually happened this year. Saying under optimal conditions that an unskilled necro can beat out a skilled demo means nothing because the success of those two players depends mainly on their team mates protecting them. Also, your setting the best possible ideal condition for your argument because that player was able to choose a team make up that favors (or should) their protection. So lets talk about the other 99% of pvp as of now which is....

Pug minis. A necro OR demo equally geared in t4 will BOTH be **** because of how pugs are played. You can hang in the back line mostly unnoticed and do what you want, most players can anyway. But when it comes to immediate survivability though, a Demo wins out every time. 2 stuns, 1 root, 1 snare, 2 possible KB, speed boost, and evade mixed with up to 34% Fear and Stun immunity (with AA), and a possible green heal, your pretty resistant to anything but someone who can 2 shot cloths (ranger, sin, some tanks)

Necro not only suffer from very obvious CC animations (which are easy to spot and run out of range) but many classes are resistant to Fear and Stun. The only CC necro has going for it is the pet snare. When it comes to sustained survivability though, Necro wins out on demo. They can self heal for huge amounts, often times I find I can't even finish a necro at 10% or less because he runs to far out of range and there's too much of a lag time between casts while he heals. If you want to talk about burst, most t4 necro's are hitting 4-5k crits on Icestrike several times a game, I can't remember the last time I Shockstriked someone for over 3k.

Now if your talking pvp gear only or k6 gear, the demo is usually going to win out in kills on the necro. The better cc's, mobility, and cc resist just keep you alive much longer when being focused over a necro, and dying as little as possible while dpsing as much as possible is the best secret to topping the kill chart. Now if your saying no heals a demo and necro on the same team, sure, the necro will (should) steal most of the kills just by the nature of the dot mechanic...but there have been plenty of matches where I steal all the kills and there are several necros on my team. It just comes down to the player, not so much the class.

But in t4 gear, both the classes are even, just in different ways.


*I am not supporting pug minis, I am just stating the fact that 95% of pvp is through pug mini games. Seeing as it's the largest segment of PLAYED pvp, that's what you should be basing your opinion on. Anyone knows that a cloth in a premade is only as good as his team is and the heavy chasing the opposing cloth.

[Stealthkilla]

Necro hands down is far(m) more better to play then Demo in PvP, Demo is just a one trick pony while Necro has more options to play about with.

As for dps I feel my Necro in Khitai does more nastiness and bigger burst then my full T4 demo O.0

Why people bitch about wasted feats, maybe u should stop qq and go learn to spec like this

http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v5_1296...4ba61443915180 (Build I gave Smukk which he never changed)

(btw I count 5 wasted points on that build on unholy fortitude)

As for CCs demo is good 1v1 but Necro has far more better CC's for supporting your team(2 AoE fears, AoE root) along with Tome of Epithur, Tome is a long cool down but imba when u get it right (ask crank).

Also Necro energy seems to last longer then demo for some reason + the buffs Necro has are very good also, armor, protection, more ticks on FTW, you can just change them on the fly to suit the situation.

Yesterday in LT flagging for 10mins of the game http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4485/h0qs.jpg

[Dodgeball]

With the "hit and run" style minis that are played today id have to agree with most of the people here and say necros have the advantage. Most pvp is run in do dmg and run out and hide, and all skillweave necros are pros at that. Being able to put dots on people that last 40secs (ftw), 30 secs, and 20 secs is a huge + when they tic to do more than 6K dmg total(full duration) and are guaranteed kills for the necro whenever that player dies. That doesn't even include the insta-ice strikes that crit for 3-4K. Overall, necros have the abillity to stop regens and prevent hiding with minute long dots and easily hide while their dots to their work. Demos have the burst damage to make players run away and push mini groups backwards if played right, but once they hide and get back to 100% hp the demo looses the kill. Demons are more exposed because they have to be in view to do damage and cant hide around corners spellweaving unnoticed. Either way in any good premade, teams should never let either of these classes breath and keep them down with well played rogues/tanks. Pug minis are all about "hit and run" play a necro for easy kills.

[Sarhal]

Listen to Stealthy, he have both necro and demo + experienced a couple of challenging pvp on them, so his opinion based on practice.

This thread so full of theorists :<

Next, who premades? Premades represent such a low percentage of played pvp that on the US servers you can count on 1 hand all the ones that actually happened this year.

*I am not supporting pug minis, I am just stating the fact that 95% of pvp is through pug mini games. Seeing as it's the largest segment of PLAYED pvp, that's what you should be basing your opinion on. Anyone knows that a cloth in a premade is only as good as his team is and the heavy chasing the opposing cloth.

Premades - is the way how team pvp should be played, so I think its way wiser balance feedback and tweaks around this. In Pugs if u good player u can steamroll with any class, even barb. It doesnt matter what to use to farm baddies.

But in t4 gear, both the classes are even, just in different ways.

Do you have both T4 demo and necro? I do and I played them both in premades and other pvp, thay are not even. When u are having 2500+ magic damage on necro u doing bursts for 8k-9k in overgeared toons, oyu understand how useless demo is :>

Actually getting more damage gear buffs necro more than demo.

[Suctum]

Listen to Stealthy, he have both necro and demo + experienced a couple of challenging pvp on them, so his opinion based on practice.

This thread so full of theorists :<



Premades - is the way how team pvp should be played, so I think its way wiser balance feedback and tweaks around this. In Pugs if u good player u can steamroll with any class, even barb. It doesnt matter what to use to farm baddies.





Do you have both T4 demo and necro? I do and I played them both in premades and other pvp, thay are not even. When u are having 2500+ magic damage on necro u doing bursts for 8k-9k in overgeared toons, oyu understand how useless demo is :>

Actually getting more damage gear buffs necro more than demo.

lol, and my opinion is not? Over 4k minis played, and guess what, I have ZERO problem shutting down most necros even on bad teams where I have no help.

The only time the necro is a threat is when they are T4 geared since their burst is more reliable and better than a demo's. Fear is not that great of a CC when DT's are spamming DP all over the place, and for the most part if I can get a necro alone I will win the CC battle.

As for T4 loot, no I have none. I don't care about raiding and I am still doing quite well in T3 pvp armor against T4 muppets. However, I know what my numbers look like when I have over 1,500 magic damage, and I know what a necro dot's tick for when they are in T4 gear vs. pvp gear. The fact BOTH classes do not have to work that hard when your basic FoG is hitting for 1,400-1,500 non crit and Icestrike for the same along with FtW that's hitting for 300-400 a tick crit means it takes very little to do well when you have that gear. That goes for both necro and demo.

WoF? I use it maybe once or twice during a match, I mostly use SB around corners and try to maximize my AoE. I spend my Detonate saving others, not to WoF for a few seconds.

As for your premade observation, your going to take the 1% of the population to form a standard on class balance. Since funcom is known for listening to the pvp base, good luck with that. I form my opinions on what the majority of PLAYED pvp is, before 2.5 I would say premades, but now, it is most certainly pugs and will probably stay that way.

[Sarhal]

lol, and my opinion is not? Over 4k minis played, and guess what, I have ZERO problem shutting down most necros even on bad teams where I have no help.

The only time the necro is a threat is when they are T4 geared since their burst is more reliable and better than a demo's. Fear is not that great of a CC when DT's are spamming DP all over the place, and for the most part if I can get a necro alone I will win the CC battle.

As for T4 loot, no I have none. I don't care about raiding and I am still doing quite well in T3 pvp armor against T4 muppets. However, I know what my numbers look like when I have over 1,500 magic damage, and I know what a necro dot's tick for when they are in T4 gear vs. pvp gear. The fact BOTH classes do not have to work that hard when your basic FoG is hitting for 1,400-1,500 non crit and Icestrike for the same along with FtW that's hitting for 300-400 a tick crit means it takes very little to do well when you have that gear. That goes for both necro and demo.

WoF? I use it maybe once or twice during a match, I mostly use SB around corners and try to maximize my AoE. I spend my Detonate saving others, not to WoF for a few seconds.

As for your premade observation, your going to take the 1% of the population to form a standard on class balance. Since funcom is known for listening to the pvp base, good luck with that. I form my opinions on what the majority of PLAYED pvp is, before 2.5 I would say premades, but now, it is most certainly pugs and will probably stay that way.

Hope I could meet u after merge, will be curious

About balancing minis around pugs, there none needed. If u good u can be top killer and farm ppl on any class in nowdays pugs. So there things are fine.

Ofc I know that premades by far minority of arena pvp in aoc now, but there things at least work how it should be, with proper focus and teamwork.

Also u play on PvE server so its biased ur vision of PvP, im not meaning that PvE servers are full of nabs, ofc there skilled players too, but there alot wonder nabs like sins without LO, necros with One with dead and stuff like that, which doesnt help objective judgement.

P.S. WoF is best filler in short distances, its must channel it full even 1 sec WoF quite ur best dps.

[Mathieulombardi]

Even starcraft 2 is balanced on 2v2s and above, not the competitive 1v1s pro gamers play. It'd be interesting to discuss what kind of pvp aoc should really be based on.

[-tomhet-]

Why people bitch about wasted feats, maybe u should stop qq and go learn to spec like this

http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v5_1296...4ba61443915180

that spec is just an example of how unfit all end feats are. it forces you to go both trees to extend despoil the soul no pets gameplay.

night of harvest is ridiculous feat and ruined blight not worth it.

you just linked a rez pad farm pug minigame where it shows people on oposite team getting farmed.

that build is no novelty looks like you copied a build from torilius or fass wich isnt updated to sprint revamp.

by the way not feating 5 points in motd is huge mistake for pvp.

unholy hands breaks with a single white hit from either a team mate or a parasite soul/frozen hatred so its never realy good unless in very unique 1vs1 situations

it sais a lot about who your fighting that you can state necro fears are good even in 1vs1 and especialy lol at being able to use fear at sw when its so damn easy to avoid it.

all these claims necro is are based upon using pve gear given pvp gear is ultra demoralizing to use.

if funcom doesnt allow people to use the gear they want in pvp minigames its going to be back to old times of necro dps being ridiculous using pvp gear against other classes using pvp gear.

necro vs demo demo wins hands down, gameplaywise its so much more fun to play necro despite all the useless feats and broken feat trees.