The logic behind T4 gear and the need to adjust its stats.

[Suctum]

He had me to about the end, not everyone farmed bori levels. Some of us did it through minis and world pvp.

He also forgot the thing about the ranger revamp and exhausting traps/bleeds and the buffed pen shot.

[Texan615]

once upon a time.

people played virtual characters in low fantasy world of hyboria based on old myths and legends of old pre-christian europe.

they rediscovered the power of better armor and weapons and cried rivers about it.

right from start they discovered that stacking magic gems would enable them to kill so fast that some people developed a god complex.

then the mighty programer gods hidden in R'lyeh said no! enough. and these might gems were nerfed into stinking feces.

later they discovered epic kesh bosses droped shiny blue armors and people farmed pve for pvp advantage.

and for a long time people just cried nerf this and that and delete tos storm crown and grip of death on necros else my imba pve gear dont work in pvp!

but alas skill prevailed and the mighty warriors were presented with pvp gear wich made them Übermensch against the epic keshatta geared players, and pve'rs cried oh noes this pvp gear is too strong i will not pay a cent more to this game im going to go back to wow cause doing combos is to hard and its too many spells and buffs and debuffs im confused.

so for some time galadh and his scum friends reigned supreme with only the mighty empire who were professionals at doing naked rp in battlekeeps to gain faster pvp xp to be able to "compete" with the Übermensch.

but alas the russians came to learn the ways of owning multiple battlekeeps and phantom sieges to maintanin the power, and people cried nerf battlekeep buffs they farm us qq, there is no skill my pvp gear is not imba anymore.
and the great warriors joined great guild alliances wich owned battlekeeps so they could be mighty against the ones still using epic keshatta gear and didnt have battlekeeps.

so they cried i cannot do minigames the premades, the premades, the premades they broke my face and my momma dont care im gonna go back to wow.

so battlekeeps were nerfed and many left game because they werent imba anymore, and people werent allowed to play with their friends anymore because people were to afraid to pvp.

and then came allmighty bori and all said its is good let us farm those nodes hard to get our Übermensch gear so we can go around and be Übermensch against people using t1-t2 pve gear.
so people stoped to pvp to get pvp gear and people flocked to biggest guilds to have a chance to farm those nodes like pro pvp'ers.

then as t3 crafted wepons started to become available like the good lambs they are they went to most sucessfull pve guild to get the weapons and go back to being the awesome pvp'ers they were in shinny bori armor and t3 crafted wepons.

and thus came to be the great reign of the immortal soldiers wich held the mightiest of armors wich granted them immortality vs all the heretic mages wich had no proper armor apart from pve gear to be able to scratch their mighty armors.

and all the soldiers rejoiced in their supremacy and farmed and farmed the pug minigames like pro pvp'ers fighting unorganized rable, given the game masters decided that playing with friends in minigames was to hard for pvp'ers to handle.

and one day they finished t4 and people started to gear up and pve'rs started to show their face in minigames and pvp'ers were envious.
that armor is so shiny and mighty you must be nerfed, you kill me because your armor is shinier and that cannot be!
mine must be the shinniest armor because i farmed those nodes so hard and was forced to migrate to pve server to farm faster and was forced to join t3 raids for months so i could get my Übermensch t3 crafted weapon and now here you are with shinnier armor doing better then me who pvpd so hard in hator ka and bori.

you must be nerfed!
it cannot be that your armor is better then mine!

Haha, this is basically the last 5 yrs of Aoc.

Nice job Noite.

[Jota180]

Maybe then its time for PVErs to grab their nuts and take it like the pvp community had for the past 3 years of unbalanced PVE changes that absolutely changed pvp 180 degrees.

Stop crying a river the moment pvp changes are mentioned.
No one is going to stop you from doing your dungeons and raids with your guilds, your pve gear will still look the same.

My point stands (which you incidentally didn't or couldn't respond to with an intellectual argument).
Funcom should not make changes for the minority which impact negatively on the majority.
Making changes to benefit the majority which impacts negatively on the minority (pvpers) on the other hand is acceptable.

This is common business sense that a monkey could understand.

[Nuadh]

Just split the stats, so PVE gear has only PVE stats and PVP gear has only PVP stats... Really the easiest way to balance this situation. Yes, there may be better ways, but that would be the easiest for FunCom. (Easy for FunCom may be the best selling point here, given their current situation)

[Chillee]

Just split the stats, so PVE gear has only PVE stats and PVP gear has only PVP stats... Really the easiest way to balance this situation. Yes, there may be better ways, but that would be the easiest for FunCom. (Easy for FunCom may be the best selling point here, given their current situation)

Yeah that would work....FC has trouble fixing disappearing toon hair, mounts, instance crashes, inexplicable lag spikes, rez window, etc etc etc, but totally changing gear structure is an easy fix. Right.

[Mellaus]

I remember when i started playing AoC, i knew nothing about MMORPG, and at first i did not understand the logic behind PvP gear escalation.

I mean, PvE gear makes sense, because the difficulty increasing at every tier of raid or instance requires the characters to scale in power to face the new challenges.
That makes sense, just like AA tree for PvE makes sense.

But in PvP, you face other players, so i couldn't get why you needed any kind of power escalation.
I mean, the difference between the players themselves is already there to level the PvP population in a way which is much more dynamic per nature than any system Funcom could implement.

All in all, gear escalation in PvP is an automatic fail as a system.
There should be one single set of gear available for PvP and that's it.
Any kind of progression should be pure stats, titles and vanity.

[Anubium]

That sounds like what unchained is planned to be doing.

The whole issue of this thread seems to be that some pvpers don't like pvers coming in with the highest tier gear (t4) and then having better pvp damage or protection than the highest pvp gear. Unchained would put everyone on the same gear/aa/whatever levels for pvp. So skill would be the key factor vs who hit rocks the best or got tier4 gear or did the work to make pvp 10 by actually doing real pvp.

New players get reamed in pvp without anything. If you can get into a good guild and work at it you can get pve gear and you can do khitai/etc for the AAs...but starting from a new lvl 80 in minis is going to get you pretty frustrated. That's why when I did pvp recently I enjoyed the lower level ones, where you all had the same AA points, essentially same gear (even if you farmed catacombs and such) and it was based on skill, not who got gear from what.

What incentive does that give the pvpers? Well, do pvpers go for the gear or just to thrash other players? You see the trash talk in global and you can tell some people get it off by making fun of other players. Some like the challenge, but the noisy ones are going to be more noticeable to the rest of the pve world.

Maybe some sort of pvp social gear. Battle stallions only obtained by pvp tokens. Social pets such as a battle escort or soldier of fortune bodyguard. What do pvpers want?

When you get to pvp10, what else is there for the pvper?

[Binderato]

My point stands (which you incidentally didn't or couldn't respond to with an intellectual argument).
Funcom should not make changes for the minority which impact negatively on the majority.
Making changes to benefit the majority which impacts negatively on the minority (pvpers) on the other hand is acceptable.

This is common business sense that a monkey could understand.

when you say something so stupid and dumb you don't deserve an "intellectual argument" in response because you won't be able to understand it.

That being said, your argument is false.
The "changes" for the "majority" PVE has lead this game to the grounds.
This game had such a high potential and population but with all the changes that's " acceptable" by your standards has killed the population.

Incase you haven't noticed games dead. It is not what it was 2-4years ago.

So no the changes were not acceptable and failed miserably.

And the common business sense that a monkey could understand obviously failed with this company. With this game.
99% the business out there thinks the same, follows the same path. Only a few comes out and actually make it. Those few are the ones who took a different approach.

[pekka]

I don't really care how Funcom fixes the gear imbalance with pvp as long as they don't damage pve gear in the process.

This! PvPers will get Unchained PvP, no sense to continue the verbal fight.

[Harmonium]

This! PvPers will get Unchained PvP, no sense to continue the verbal fight.

So if the pvp is only mini... we will all leave the game, and age of conan should rename to age of conan pve.

The pub of the game at the launch was the pvp, pvp everywhere, fatality animation, awesome combat système.

And now we have gear better than everything else.