Game Director Letter - April 2013

[Milkshakess]

I don't have a huge issue with giving more options in the form of unchained minis. This is good for the casuals, noobs, and fps shooter types that don't want progression in an mmo (as odd as that sounds). I don't however, feel that unchained minis should offer the same rewards as normal minis. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want a system where gear doesn't matter, then gear and pvp level progression shouldn't be a part of it either. Unchained can can award pvp xp so at least people can acquire tier 1 pvp gear but under no circumstances should a player be able to progress in the same way you can in normal minis.

[Geldour]

i just want kills an deaths to be shown again along with mini game wins and losses, days in guild ( eg it would say i was in X guild member for 43days ) etc.

other things i want is:
* average damage per mini
* average damage taken per mini
* average flag caps per mini
* average healing per mini
* seiges attended
* unchained mini game where all the gear is the same
* pvp 15 unlocked along with new gear for it that is used in normal minis or world pvp ( not in unchained )

[Rathothis]

I don't have a huge issue with giving more options in the form of unchained minis. This is good for the casuals, noobs, and fps shooter types that don't want progression in an mmo (as odd as that sounds). I don't however, feel that unchained minis should offer the same rewards as normal minis. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want a system where gear doesn't matter, then gear and pvp level progression shouldn't be a part of it either.

As odd as that sounds, the three types of players you describe probably account for three quarters of the population of every MMO, at the very least. Also, care to argue your point that Unchained minis should not give rewards? Ahh yes, the glorious example of Tournament mode!

[Milkshakess]

As odd as that sounds, the three types of players you describe probably account for three quarters of the population of every MMO, at the very least.

Maybe but how many of those will actually actively sign up for unchained minis? We don't really know but I believe the number is lower than those that want normal minis and normal pvp progression.

Also, care to argue your point that Unchained minis should not give rewards? Ahh yes, the glorious example of Tournament mode!

I already did. You do understand the cake proverb, right?

If pvp is really about the fun factor then a progression reward isn't needed. Progression should be reserved for those that actually play normal minis and want a progression based system.

If the real reason behind wanting unchained minis is something other than wanting a pure skill based system where gear plays no part, such as wanting to lessen the gear gap or make pvp more noob-friendly then unchained minis is the wrong answer. If the latter is the underlying reason then it would be much more fitting to split pvp into two brackets based on pvp level.

I don't see how tournament mode is relevant to this discussion since tournament mode awards the same tokens and pvp xp that normal mode does. Tournament mode isn't about a pure skill-based system. The focus of it is being able to play with friends and guildies on premade teams.

[Rathothis]

I already did. You do understand the cake proverb, right?

I do understand the proverb, but fail to see how it is relevant to the issue at hand. To be clear about this: Unchained minigames will not remove vertical progression from other PvP scenarios in the game. Thus, open world PvP, sieges, and "normal" minis will still be affected by the gear / AA gap we see now. I find it somewhat inconsistent that you appear to be fine with players closing that gap by PvTreeing (Bori) and PvEing (everything from Khitai to T4 raids), but at the same time oppose rewards for actually doing PvP.

[freneticfangs]

I find it somewhat inconsistent that you appear to be fine with players closing that gap by PvTreeing (Bori) and PvEing (everything from Khitai to T4 raids), but at the same time oppose rewards for actually doing PvP.

^ Well said. This is exactly why non-gear dependent minis should provide pvp progress. Honing your skills in actual pvp combat SHOULD be the way to acquire gear.

Allowing others to farm you on end in a mini where gear dictates battles is neither fun nor does it give people the chance to better themselves in combat. With gear removal from minis, you start figuring out what you did wrong when you die - and not simply sighing behind your monitor because there's really very little you can do RIGHT to survive and learning nothing.

Gear dependent minis aren't about PvP, skill or strategy. I've seen some pvp lvl 10 folks on the forums admitting how ridiculously lame/boring it is to so easily kill under-geared players. A big enough gear gap takes the challenge out of it. The only ones who are left enjoying this system are the same people who have the mentality to enjoy hitting a little girl as a grown man.

I do hope that after this system is implemented sieges are fixed properly. There is a great reason to have gear.

Sieges are insane fun and players DO need a reason to want pvp gear progression in an MMO.


TLDR: Rewarding pvp skill SHOULD be the way to pvp gear/progression, not the current system of PvE raiding (or everyone's most hated bori).

[Azmith]

I love all the whining about latency from EU... Weren't you the same people that trolled and **** talked when a bunch of NA players came over and fought your mains with fresh 80s and 200+ ping?

Either way, I doubt it will be an issue. There are many many games that operate a one world server system that incorporates both NA and EU and the latency is fine on both sides.

[Azmith]

Latency is a problem for everyone, including PVE-player, they also left AOC for bad latency over a long time in the past. Most of AOC players only play PVE and PVE just want to play. WOW has achieved its success purely on PVE. One-Server for PVE is uninteresting and servermigration are uninteresting. AOC is older technology than TSW, why this risk, for the few mini-game players on PVE servers. Merged the PVP server and free transfers for some time there.

Funcom may eventually reduce the cost with one server, but what does that when disgruntled customers leave for the game.

Wholly inaccurate and biased perception of the reality of things.

[Azmith]

I don't have a huge issue with giving more options in the form of unchained minis. This is good for the casuals, noobs, and fps shooter types that don't want progression in an mmo (as odd as that sounds). I don't however, feel that unchained minis should offer the same rewards as normal minis. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want a system where gear doesn't matter, then gear and pvp level progression shouldn't be a part of it either. Unchained can can award pvp xp so at least people can acquire tier 1 pvp gear but under no circumstances should a player be able to progress in the same way you can in normal minis.

Yes, god forbid somebody do skill based PVP and be rewarded for it so they can smash the keyboard turners in the power creep minis. Lol...

I think rewards should DOUBLE for unchained, then the "normal" minis will get a lot more high end geared players to compete with on even footing. It's not about casual vs non casual... it's about Skill > Gear... you know... winning because you're good, not because you have inflated numbers on some piece of armor.

[Azmith]

Maybe but how many of those will actually actively sign up for unchained minis? We don't really know but I believe the number is lower than those that want normal minis and normal pvp progression.


I already did. You do understand the cake proverb, right?

If pvp is really about the fun factor then a progression reward isn't needed. Progression should be reserved for those that actually play normal minis and want a progression based system.

If the real reason behind wanting unchained minis is something other than wanting a pure skill based system where gear plays no part, such as wanting to lessen the gear gap or make pvp more noob-friendly then unchained minis is the wrong answer. If the latter is the underlying reason then it would be much more fitting to split pvp into two brackets based on pvp level.

I don't see how tournament mode is relevant to this discussion since tournament mode awards the same tokens and pvp xp that normal mode does. Tournament mode isn't about a pure skill-based system. The focus of it is being able to play with friends and guildies on premade teams.

Skill based PVP is not "noob friendly"... I'd say the "normal" minis are "noob friendly" in that if idiot guild A farms idiot noob 1 t4 gear, they can idiot there way to victory with barely any effort due to the gear. You want to talk about normal minis, let's go back to 2008.