Those Players Complaining about Funcom adding so many changes.

[soulripper6]

It's all about perspective I guess. You want a game that is easy and instantly rewarding for little effort. Others want a challenge and long term progression. The game used to be the latter, now it is the former. Those of us who have played for years understandably are outraged at Funcoms new P2W model and downright destruction of what a lot of us found enjoyable about the game. New and very casual players like this new version of the game. It's bound to cause some conflicts. Elitist and rude/anti-social players can be found in every single multiplayer game out there, so thats just people being their shitty self.

Nope I do not but fact of it is that u want side track this to keep old game flaws made it harder for anyone else.. Period.

From the point of view of an "elitist veteran player":

We veterans have asked Funcom for a long time to allow atlantean shards to be earned through other content other than raid finder, but to no avail. We've also asked for the ability to create our own raids and queue up to raid finder and not have to deal with the AoC genetic lottery. Also to no avail.

As a result, everyone is thrown together into raid finder. I guess it makes sense due to the veterans are needed for the raid finder to even "function" and do anything constructive.

My own thoughts on raid finder is it would be ok if you didn't have to deal with the trolls who purposely waste the time of everyone else, jack@sses who like to argue with everyone and be a general d!ck to everyone in raid by being an antisocial prick, afk people that do absolutely nothing to contribute, and those players that just have no skill whatsoever and no desire to learn and take constructive criticism.

For world boss, I'm indifferent, I only do it once a month on my main toon so I can get relics to buy pets I'm missing. Also world boss isn't usually a living hell having to deal with complete @sses, people tend to do it without much drama and a few clueless or afk people don't make any difference.

Veteran shown to be the worst helpers to new comers in any Game. This the real deal any so called veteran or Elite player learned the strategist to Dungeons like anyone else YET once u learned them You all rage, insult. those new to any Raid period. You all act like you were born knowing anything about a game. So quit your crying about make Game to your liking cause in a world full of billions of people does not make anyone special. not even money.....

Can I go to your raid finder raids please?? because mine frequently have vicious obnoxious people typing horrible comments with or without swear words and nobody explaining tactics to new players.

PFFT Lady those making it difficult in Raid Finder are geared T5-T6 players like always being horses arses & all they doing is Gaming. maybe one two noobs go off handle but now they Learned to ignore them Idiots. BTW if you look really close those afk tend have T5-T6 gear one must are Rogues that hit main bosses 1st to sabotage Raid Finder for them. Anytime RF wipes is well geared so called Elitist & Veterans Rogues dps crap out boss over & over to mess it up. maybe maybe just 1-3 noobs Rogues mess it up but the Donkeys messing up RF is Vet. Elite one's. so all you got going fro your defense of those yahoo donkey's is you trying reason there lack of Sportsmanship in pixel environment.

[tman1991]

PFFT Lady those making it difficult in Raid Finder are geared T5-T6 players like always being horses arses & all they doing is Gaming. maybe one two noobs go off handle but now they Learned to ignore them Idiots. BTW if you look really close those afk tend have T5-T6 gear one must are Rogues that hit main bosses 1st to sabotage Raid Finder for them. Anytime RF wipes is well geared so called Elitist & Veterans Rogues dps crap out boss over & over to mess it up. maybe maybe just 1-3 noobs Rogues mess it up but the Donkeys messing up RF is Vet. Elite one's. so all you got going fro your defense of those yahoo donkey's is you trying reason there lack of Sportsmanship in pixel environment.

Not sure what version of the game you play.. But the afk'ers are usually neither new or old. they just choose to be that way. They are in a separate class of bad. And your thesis that the problem is the vets and new people should be given a pass, has a false assumption that the new people actually want to learn what to do. Most of the new people Ive met want to be hand held and they complain that they cant keep up cause of some random excuse, when most of the time, its cause they have no clue what to do and just want to blame others for them not even trying to understand what to do.

[zujilin]

Claims that Game challenges have been dumb down NOT T4-T6 are intact in that area besides maybe once a million do legacy players ever go back to T1-T3 or regular 6 man dungeons they just ignore those places now.

T3-6 had huge nerf and now are pretty simple, opened to all. Everyone now could try go in T6, cause everyone is FULL T4 now as now, but i dont see any T5-6 pug raid in global, because they are not motivated to try it. Old content like T1-4 or regular 6 man are ignored to new players (but they pratically ignore ALL content is not a RF) cause too high challenge respect the "poor" loot. Old players not ignore them, just have trouble to fill everything in pug cause are all busy in RF/WB.
I still love Vile Nativity and need 1 or more hour to fill that place, cause everyone have leggendary cape for free, just for do you one example!

I will always say it back than to get 1-5 drops in 1 week T1-T6 tokens could take few years if you work for a living & have family take care of. What about Major tokens WOW those took longer. if you are weekend warrior add 1-2 yrs more on something is only pixels that just fell under the ridiculous side back than.

We live short amount of time in this World a Game is not about wishing, I wish could have gotten gear before I died in real life. what would been the point to play a game that takes years for some to get good stuff. relax,play,enjoy cause you never know when your times up.

Lack of time is one excuse, we all have a work and a life, do 2-3 REAL raids for weeks take a lot less time of RF grinders 24/24, 7/7.
You can be full T1/2 in just one or two weeks, between drop items and relics, but the sad realty is that also a T1 is too hard and snobbed to new players, not to the old players, and you see it, new players link WB item and still ask: IS T1 OR T2? From this you know and is sad, they NEVER SAW a real raid, so they NEVER SAW the real AOC.
People just love it cause are easy, be honest. No need work there, you can go AFK and get your reward.
I am pretty sure you gear fast in RF where you can gain one pair of relic sometime, respect the true T4 where drops:
22 relic (secure for everyone)
7 urns (15 relics each one)
12 little armor items (every items mean you dont need spent 40 relics and 7 golds)
5 rare
5 weapons (every weapon mean you dont need spent between 120 and 240 relics and 1-2 rares)
2 rings (every ring cost 1 rare, 60 relics and 10 golds)
1 neck (cost 1 rare, 100 relics, 10 gods)
1 cape (cost 1 rare, 100 relics, 10 golds)
and 2 beautifull mounts, 1 tiger and 1 wolf

Total cost for be full T4 = 1260 relics, 11 rares and 160 golds.
All without considering the fun of being part of what is a real challenge where you have to learn about your character, know how to do, be vocal socializing and having fun.
Good luck in kill yourself of bore in that content that can be long also 2,5 hours for give you 0-4 relics sometime, the sad thing is that people do it anyway!


The thrill of getting into the field in a new fight or in an old but difficult one. Face up to the danger with your comrades, co-ordinating with them, as in a dance, assisting and protecting a companion, or be yourself saved, to overcome a critical situation, take advantage of all the skills of all your comrades (heals, ress in combat, kite, switch ...) and laughter in TS3 after a hard fight; what you know about AoC, mate?
Raidfinder? WB? Arena?
The current game discourages new players from wanting to learn, from getting tested, discouraging them even in having social relationships.
This is Age of Koreans, not my loved Age of Conan, a great experiment of one MMORPG single player, a game where you can feel alone while being surrounded by people; great success!

[Ladihawke]

Your FIRST line in the thread was: "Raids Finder: has made players enjoy Game there way not having listen to Jerks screaming at them for Pixel mistake & telling them kill your self since you can't understand starts."

My point still stands .... Raid finder raids frequently have a horrible atmosphere - from the impatient, to the rude, to the obnoxious, to the incompetent, to the indifferent players .... and it does NOT matter if they are if they are in T6 gear or in green Tortage gear, if they are new comers or veterans or elitists who are making the raiding environment toxic ....it's unwelcoming and unappealing ... and it is what is encountered more often than not in raid finder and COMPLETELY beyond my control to avoid when I accept on the "group found" window unless I put a lot of players on ignore.

The difference is ALL of that is TYPED in raid finder not spoken...it appears that you are sensitive to someone saying horrible things but NOT to them typing it. I do not find typed or spoken abuse enjoyable or acceptable.

A difference with player lead raids (PUG or guild) is that if you find the environment created by the raid leader or group to be unpleasant/toxic/hostile then you can stop attending and find a group of players with an attitude more in line with your own.... this can not be done in raid finder ... quitting and taking a 30minute cowards buff will not guarantee that the next raid finder raid you attend will have a cheerful happy group of players that you will have fun with whilst you kill the bosses. Raid finder raids rapidly became one of the main ways that people now gear out in t3 & t4 ...and the most prolific supplier of the alteanean shards that many want. So now most of our newcomers encounter a terrible raiding environment.

As you implied yourself, players aren't born knowing the tactics...a good raid leader will teach ..they have motivation to invest time to teach so their raids are successful...there is no incentive for most to teach in raid finder ... how many times have the fights started with nothing at all being typed in raid chat ..how is THAT helpful to our new players? how will that help them be effective in the raid? how will that help them enjoy the raid when they have no clue what they should be doing?
Do you know who I usually see TEACHING tactics in raid finder raids - I see the VETERANS you despise doing it ..the players I know have been playing for years writing strat and creating scripts for raid finder instances. It's the most often the VETERANS who step up to do the essential tasks that would mean wipe after wipe unless those roles are covered.

yes I'm a veteran AoC player ..with years of gearing out my characters ...mostly through PUG groups and raids ... so yes I've been to the type of raids you don't enjoy ...I don't go to those again .... but mostly I have found PuG raids where there is respect, laughter, fun and teasing between those who know each other in the raid and this is enjoyable to raid amongst even as a complete stranger to the group. The atmosphere of anticipation for the lottery of "what's in the box today" and mini-celebrations when people get items ...that the items don't go to rot and someone has just upgraded gear...where is the shared joy at privately opened boxes which drop tokens directly into inventory?? ... Even in complete PuG groups there is a sense of happiness for others when one gets THAT weapon, THAT tear that means they get their first main piece, THAT tear than means they complete their set... there is none of that from RF ..and THIS is what our newcomers are missing out on with RF being the source of mid-tier gear. I do not find that raid finder raids make for lasting PLEASANT memories of how I geared out my characters ... and this makes me sad for all Aoc players. I am also sad that for new players who haven't found a great group of people to play with that they encounter raid finder hostility and indifference as their first group encounter in this great game.

[xCodename]

[...]
yes I'm a veteran AoC player ..with years of gearing out my characters ...mostly through PUG groups and raids ... so yes I've been to the type of raids you don't enjoy ...I don't go to those again .... but mostly I have found PuG raids where there is respect, laughter, fun and teasing between those who know each other in the raid and this is enjoyable to raid amongst even as a complete stranger to the group. The atmosphere of anticipation for the lottery of "what's in the box today" and mini-celebrations when people get items ...that the items don't go to rot and someone has just upgraded gear...where is the shared joy at privately opened boxes which drop tokens directly into inventory?? ... Even in complete PuG groups there is a sense of happiness for others when one gets THAT weapon, THAT tear that means they get their first main piece, THAT tear than means they complete their set... there is none of that from RF ..and THIS is what our newcomers are missing out on with RF being the source of mid-tier gear. I do not find that raid finder raids make for lasting PLEASANT memories of how I geared out my characters ... and this makes me sad for all Aoc players. I am also sad that for new players who haven't found a great group of people to play with that they encounter raid finder hostility and indifference as their first group encounter in this great game.

The problem is that a lot of these newcomers don't care about the feeling of accomplishment. Modern gamers want fast gratification, if you need more than 3 tries at a boss this content is worthless and not good. Challange is not wanted, everyone must be a winner and get rewards, regardless if you do 10 DPS as a damage dealer or 1800.

I see this so often in global, new people complain about leveling being to slow, when I ask them for how long they play they say "3 weeks" while being on level 60 already. The first time I played AoC it took me probably 4 months to reach level 80. They talk about "I want to do end game content" while not even having reached level 80 once in the whole game, quest story is useless for them, only the number EXP is important and good gear as fast as possible. Most of these people can't figure out what to do at a quest where you need to defend a certain point or do a puzzle, everything must be easy or they can't understand it (Thoth "puzzle" anyone?).

PUG raids don't reward everyone, that's the problem for most newcomers, they think just because they were in the raid they should get an item after every boss kill (like you do in a lot of games nowdays). Saw that happen many times that fresh level 80 people leave T1 raids because they think it's sh*t that not everyone get's an item.

That's modern gaming and modern gamers, 90% of all games out there work like that, you get the best stuff regardless if you are good or not, and if you need at least some skill there is an option to just buy the stuff for real money.

[magnum92]

The biggest issue is ofcourse that veterans is forced to play with new players. Lets face it, most people want to play with others within their own skill-level. Im actually pretty impressed of the tolerance the AOC community show. Make this system in any other multiplayer game and the hate would be huge compared to this game.

Its not rude or elitistic to say it, this is not a job or work towards a better community. If player x dont enjoy teaching others then X shouldnt have bad concience for refusing. We are used to get good gear from challanging content were we can choose our partners. Not play insanely easy raids but still fail them, while trying to get the beginners attention in raidchat (That is a big struggle cos they usually dont read it).

Frustrations come when wellgeared characters feel they have to carry the raids to get it killed. To some extent you can teach players the tactics but the reality is; clear majority of the new players do close to 0 dps or healing. And this was funcoms plan all along. Making the veterans (the most loyal customers who helped Funcom trough rough times), a labourforce that keeps the new players stay in the game. Also making 95% of the game completely obsolete, cos in Funcoms plans, there is only WB and RF wihooo.

Many people overexaggerate when they get angry, ive prolly done that aswell. But this is all Funcoms fault, its obvious that it would turn out this way. They gave up the game and made it the biggest cashcow they thought possible.

[zujilin]

The biggest issue is ofcourse that veterans is forced to play with new players. Lets face it, most people want to play with others within their own skill-level.

And in fact I wanted to see when the RFs lasted after all the veterans, who did not need to take the place to look for a T4 gear, had completed their ring. At the end of my first ring, I thought I was out of this hell, I was also willing to lose a second ring the prot ring (limiting myself to those of SC) but Funcom was smart, and also had to add the left ring , dragging once again the veterans who had ended up in the barrage.
I am sure that if still online, when veterans are over, funcom will also add necklaces to try to hold veterans in RF as long as possible.
Without any knowledge of game, without any knowledge of their character, of their spells/combos/skills, new players are like well-dressed children, who are not able to take care of themselves, they are lost, going to slam against every wall. (In fact, in new games you just need to click on the name of the quest and your character starts running alone to the destination, runs the quest and fights automatically, returns from the NPC and you just have to click OK to take the shini reward, practically a youtube semi-interactive)

Your FIRST line in the thread was: "Raids Finder: has made players enjoy Game there way not having listen to Jerks screaming at them for Pixel mistake & telling them kill your self since you can't understand starts."

My point still stands .... Raid finder raids frequently have a horrible atmosphere - from the impatient, to the rude, to the obnoxious, to the incompetent, to the indifferent players .... and it does NOT matter if they are if they are in T6 gear or in green Tortage gear, if they are new comers or veterans or elitists who are making the raiding environment toxic ....it's unwelcoming and unappealing ... and it is what is encountered more often than not in raid finder and COMPLETELY beyond my control to avoid when I accept on the "group found" window unless I put a lot of players on ignore.

The difference is ALL of that is TYPED in raid finder not spoken...it appears that you are sensitive to someone saying horrible things but NOT to them typing it. I do not find typed or spoken abuse enjoyable or acceptable.

A difference with player lead raids (PUG or guild) is that if you find the environment created by the raid leader or group to be unpleasant/toxic/hostile then you can stop attending and find a group of players with an attitude more in line with your own.... this can not be done in raid finder ... quitting and taking a 30minute cowards buff will not guarantee that the next raid finder raid you attend will have a cheerful happy group of players that you will have fun with whilst you kill the bosses. Raid finder raids rapidly became one of the main ways that people now gear out in t3 & t4 ...and the most prolific supplier of the alteanean shards that many want. So now most of our newcomers encounter a terrible raiding environment.

As you implied yourself, players aren't born knowing the tactics...a good raid leader will teach ..they have motivation to invest time to teach so their raids are successful...there is no incentive for most to teach in raid finder ... how many times have the fights started with nothing at all being typed in raid chat ..how is THAT helpful to our new players? how will that help them be effective in the raid? how will that help them enjoy the raid when they have no clue what they should be doing?
Do you know who I usually see TEACHING tactics in raid finder raids - I see the VETERANS you despise doing it ..the players I know have been playing for years writing strat and creating scripts for raid finder instances. It's the most often the VETERANS who step up to do the essential tasks that would mean wipe after wipe unless those roles are covered.

yes I'm a veteran AoC player ..with years of gearing out my characters ...mostly through PUG groups and raids ... so yes I've been to the type of raids you don't enjoy ...I don't go to those again .... but mostly I have found PuG raids where there is respect, laughter, fun and teasing between those who know each other in the raid and this is enjoyable to raid amongst even as a complete stranger to the group. The atmosphere of anticipation for the lottery of "what's in the box today" and mini-celebrations when people get items ...that the items don't go to rot and someone has just upgraded gear...where is the shared joy at privately opened boxes which drop tokens directly into inventory?? ... Even in complete PuG groups there is a sense of happiness for others when one gets THAT weapon, THAT tear that means they get their first main piece, THAT tear than means they complete their set... there is none of that from RF ..and THIS is what our newcomers are missing out on with RF being the source of mid-tier gear. I do not find that raid finder raids make for lasting PLEASANT memories of how I geared out my characters ... and this makes me sad for all Aoc players. I am also sad that for new players who haven't found a great group of people to play with that they encounter raid finder hostility and indifference as their first group encounter in this great game.

92 minutes of uninterrupted applause!!!

[Yorgomir]

I never will forget the epic moment when I participated in a Guild's first kill of pre-nerfed Bat of Nergal...


me lying dead in the dust, remaining tanks beautifully tanking, honoring the Heart of Tamuzz mechanics, close to enrage timeout.... last percents of its HP demolished through deflection shield... dead!
- I never ever felt this emotional after the nerfs, never!

then some few weeks later my Conq got the new awesome protection axe as reward - and any player noticing it, private telling me: "wow, where is THAT from?"
I somewhat felt *special* back then (2014)
...
nowadays (2016+), *every* Conq that has Turan expansion runs around with this weapon ://

I for myself lead T3.5 raids every other week, second boss that fromerly was the weakest, now post-nerf by far is the strongest there; but still even with our gimpy Alts, almost always a success
--- but in no way this epic feeling when clearing the encounter anymore (

-------------
now, in RF: just switch off your brain, maybe watch some Netflix or Prime on secondary monitor while running your toons weekly through it
- things change, get over it

p.s.
actually I kinda "like" RF as a straw man replacement
testing out new builds/rotations in a "life" environment is at least motivating me enough to weekly go there with all of my toons

p.p.s.
took me 2..3 years after I started playing to get my first toon full T4; then - after RF went online, my other 8 toons got full T4 in like 1...2 years for all of them.
if that is what FC wanted to achieve, then RF is a success I guess

[xCodename]

p.s.
actually I kinda "like" RF as a straw man replacement
testing out new builds/rotations in a "life" environment is at least motivating me enough to weekly go there with all of my toons

I can't even get over myself doing that sh*t on one character once a week. People that join as raidleader and totally f*ck up groups (putting all healers in one group and so on) and then go AFK with a script to move every few seconds a centimeter, Necros in T4 gear that get outDPSed by blue geared guardians, healers that use rank 1 of their blue and green heal, barbs that only do white hits because they don't know what combo attacks are or AFKers that tell people at the start of a raid that we should go get them their relics while they go AFK. It's the pure definition of "horrible", 90% of the people there lack any kind of skill.
It's just over. Nothing more to say.

[Mustaine]

Edit by Anzu: You should know the drill by now.