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Thread: Guardian hate discussion

  1. #1

    Default Guardian hate discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyky View Post
    Many things are hidden in the most MMO's, and no one knows how exactly works. You can find something on every class in this game that you cannot measure or parse and cannot explain how it works exactly.
    I do agree on this cos I have my own view/exp on aggro generation which different from other tanks but there is no way to prove which one is better when no one know the exact hate formula.
    Henryx Guardian
    Henryau Pom
    Henryz Barb
    Henryuki Hox
    Henryn Necro
    Crom
    - Henryx Age of Conan Youtube -
    - Henryx Age of Conan Blog -

  2. #2

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    honestly, when it comes to hate in this game, that's what makes it beautiful

    one of my better gameplay memories was figuring out how to agroswap with my DT and another DT. Getting the feel of where my agro was, looking at how much I was hitting for, stalling combos, saving agrotools. totally unforgiving when you did mistakes, but seriously **** agrometers.

    some things in games are best when you figure them out yourself.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    I do agree on this cos I have my own view/exp on aggro generation which different from other tanks but there is no way to prove which one is better when no one know the exact hate formula.
    You can do very reliable tests if you use gear without randomfactor crit and stuff, in controlled envirement, hit me up if u wanna test some stuff.

    I have lots of experience of people who are way better then the general level of their guild, so even though they play their chars "wrong" they still perform best, giving them a very skewed perspective of how to play their characters. When those people join better guilds, they often get reality check in their face
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    You can do very reliable tests if you use gear without randomfactor crit and stuff, in controlled envirement, hit me up if u wanna test some stuff.

    I have lots of experience of people who are way better then the general level of their guild, so even though they play their chars "wrong" they still perform best, giving them a very skewed perspective of how to play their characters. When those people join better guilds, they often get reality check in their face
    Excuse me if i am wrong but to achieve what you want, you will also need to remove AA and feats and use the exact same white weapons with the exact same hate value and passives. Even then your weapon base dps has a range so not the same roll everytime and you can always be the victim of a glancing blow without hit rating.

    You should get the nearest linear stream of theory for the sake of nearly linear numbers on the combo side of your pannel, but now you need to take into account that there are direct aggro spells/abilities (irritate, soc etc..) and combos with greatly increased hate coefficient (shield slam). You will measure the former reliably but the latter only in a nearly linear theory where the more other factors come into play (for other classes it does a lot) the more it will differ from actual practice.

    This text is purely for the fun of the discussion and should in no way be viewed as a theorycrafting aggression!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobody View Post
    Excuse me if i am wrong but to achieve what you want, you will also need to remove AA and feats and use the exact same white weapons with the exact same hate value and passives. Even then your weapon base dps has a range so not the same roll everytime and you can always be the victim of a glancing blow without hit rating.

    You should get the nearest linear stream of theory for the sake of nearly linear numbers on the combo side of your pannel, but now you need to take into account that there are direct aggro spells/abilities (irritate, soc etc..) and combos with greatly increased hate coefficient (shield slam). You will measure the former reliably but the latter only in a nearly linear theory where the more other factors come into play (for other classes it does a lot) the more it will differ from actual practice.

    This text is purely for the fun of the discussion and should in no way be viewed as a theorycrafting aggression!

    It all depends on what u want to test, but yeah some things is pretty much impossible to do.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    You can do very reliable tests if you use gear without randomfactor crit and stuff, in controlled envirement, hit me up if u wanna test some stuff.

    I have lots of experience of people who are way better then the general level of their guild, so even though they play their chars "wrong" they still perform best, giving them a very skewed perspective of how to play their characters. When those people join better guilds, they often get reality check in their face
    I know my questions maybe too deep, would be great if you can help answer the below thing:
    1. What is the hate bonus amount from destroyer for OR,CS,DB
    2. What is the hate bonus amount from shield slam
    3. Shield slam or overreach before/after destroyer does more hate
    4. How Hate % affects coh/irritate/sta/taunt
    5. How much hate can generate from taunt per hit
    6. Does CS/guard/CS stance/Anticipation retribution damage count in taunt system
    7. When the threat from irritate decay to 0, before/after its cd.
    and more...blablabla...
    Henryx Guardian
    Henryau Pom
    Henryz Barb
    Henryuki Hox
    Henryn Necro
    Crom
    - Henryx Age of Conan Youtube -
    - Henryx Age of Conan Blog -

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    1. What is the hate bonus amount from destroyer for OR,CS,DB
    From my own experience not much. I only notice aggro-boost from crits, not from Non-critting combos after Guard-Dest.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    2. What is the hate bonus amount from shield slam
    Big, combining shieldslam with an aggrotool is the best way to burst (take over aggro from another tank)

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    3. Shield slam or overreach before/after destroyer does more hate
    I've done alot of tests about this, and Shieldslam is always way stronger then everything u can produce aggrowise on a guardian (minus Stall). Im using it wheneveer its off cd basically to maximize the usage on a bossfight.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    4. How Hate % affects coh/irritate/sta/taunt
    Your hate % have nothing to do with Irritate,Coh,Sta/Taunt, They are set values depending on nothing else then if u boost them in Feats/AA.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    5. How much hate can generate from taunt per hit
    Didnt understand the question sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    6. Does CS/guard/CS stance/Anticipation retribution damage count in taunt system
    I am not sure, could be tested, but the damage output of retributive sources on guard is so low that u wouldnt want to tailor your way of playing around it in any way :P

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    7. When the threat from irritate decay to 0, before/after its cd.
    I dont remember the exact time, but its not the whole amount of it that decays, its something like 20% that decays, and 80% is permanent. There's a thread where a dev talks about this at testlive, conq revamp thread maybe. From years ago.

    It would be fun to test stuff ingame henry We play very diffrently so it would be interesting.

    And Henry, ive got a question for you too. Why do you have Bloody vengance in your rotation? 1: It removes your damagestacks 2: Its one of the lower damage combos 3: Theres no innate-hate built into the combo so its literally only the low damage giving you aggro, which is basically nothing.
    Last edited by magnum92; 30th October 2016 at 00:32.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  8. #8

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    The mist is still the taunt system, as a 400dps guard to hold aggro in raid.
    There must be a fixed taunt amount generated per hit, rumor in the past is 800taunt skill point= 800dps per hit??? If it does exists then dps is not the only factor for us to measure hate but also the number of hits.
    Henryx Guardian
    Henryau Pom
    Henryz Barb
    Henryuki Hox
    Henryn Necro
    Crom
    - Henryx Age of Conan Youtube -
    - Henryx Age of Conan Blog -

  9. #9

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    Should we start a new thread lol
    Henryx Guardian
    Henryau Pom
    Henryz Barb
    Henryuki Hox
    Henryn Necro
    Crom
    - Henryx Age of Conan Youtube -
    - Henryx Age of Conan Blog -

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    Should we start a new thread lol
    Haha yes, maybe it can be moved to guard section.

    Im sure theres no such thing as 800dps worth of innate-hate built in to each hit. You know innate hate gets transfered even tho you miss the combo right? Thats why u can get strong aggro from shieldslam eventho the target parrys, it parry the damage but not the innate hate. So with that logic of yours, missing whitehits would generate 800dps of aggro, which u must agree on, sounds very unrealistic
    Last edited by magnum92; 30th October 2016 at 01:02.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

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