Petition for Buddy Queue Mini's

[Kurt2013]

We all know who did it, but at this point it doesn't matter. In pve you don't get rewarded for losing, why be rewarded in PvP for the same. Not only do you get rewarded, you get the chance to get a team of veterans who win it for you. How would people doing t6 react if 8 people out of the raid suddenly got replaced with low skilled players, and the gear went to them while we know they were not the ones who made the clear possible. There would be outrage. But in PvP, we have to deal with this on a day to day basis, and basically do community service by leveling up those who can't do it on there own.

Of course you get rewarded by loosing. Depending on game design, at least you had fun with friends. You NEED to reward people for participating in PvP, because there are real people involved who need the game to either be fun, challenging or rewarding to spent their time with more powerfull people they have no chance to really win against. You only have a point in sports or e-sports, but pvp is more than just that. But the pve design they are introducing more and more now where you only get rewarded at the end boss, is showing the same effect, the similar philosophy had on pvp: less players doing the content.

This said, i see no reason why not change the broken tournament queue into the old system or a system that at least lets you join with partially premade groups. Unless funcom deleted old versions of the game they even have everything there already. Mostly Copy & paste...

[Suctum]

That's the whole point of this thread, we are not having fun with our friends because we don't get to play with our friends. We only get to hope we can occasionally get the chance too. And back in 2008 and 2009 you pretty much got nothing for losing in PvP, you were forced to learn to be better so you could win. I know aoc is not a sport, but you can level in PvP just as fast losing as winning now if you play enough minis. That's not a system that is rewarding, it's a system which allows progressionwithout actual learning. So the quality of players degrade, tis minis degrade, thus the point of this thread.

Playing with friends allows people to form their own teams, and progress according to their own skill set instead of borrowing from mine because I am forced to group with them. PvP is a kind of play where you simply can't reward everyone, because there will always be losers.

[Kurt2013]

That's the whole point of this thread, we are not having fun with our friends because we don't get to play with our friends. We only get to hope we can occasionally get the chance too. And back in 2008 and 2009 you pretty much got nothing for losing in PvP, you were forced to learn to be better so you could win. I know aoc is not a sport, but you can level in PvP just as fast losing as winning now if you play enough minis. That's not a system that is rewarding, it's a system which allows progressionwithout actual learning. So the quality of players degrade, tis minis degrade, thus the point of this thread.

Playing with friends allows people to form their own teams, and progress according to their own skill set instead of borrowing from mine because I am forced to group with them. PvP is a kind of play where you simply can't reward everyone, because there will always be losers.

You are right that minis have a really bad learning curve nowadays. I still remember 2009 and 2010 where even with premades, you had a chance (and time) to try out things and learn a bit. But i do not blame the rewards, i blame the resspadfarmpatch and the power explosion in pvp.

I still disagree about winners and loosers. In terms of the objective, you are right, of course. But this does not mean that playing can not be rewarding for all involved (more or less). There are enoguh games that do this well, imo it comes down to good system design. But that would be another topic for another thread.

When you see the design of the new "pvp" quests, there is another reason to change or add the mini queues...these are worse than old premade vs pugs. And the pug mini queue is not really a pug as well...look at when and how certain people relog to "rebalance" teams...

[iCannon]

Adding something to Suctum's post.
On fury there is plenty of players who are pvp5+ and can't land a single combo , mostly don't even bother with it and just go flabgotting . Some of them can't even set up their buffs yet . Tho they are advancing towards pvp10 , quite fast actually as most them play many hours a day . The higher they get the worse it will be as they count as "high pvp" in the balancing system, just every decent pvp0 can do better.

Crom has even worse players but the difference is, they're full geared, gemmed out and have max AA and a vast majority of them are tanks. Because there is no teamwork on the bad side, due to not having any coordinated teamwork, the other team that has the possibility of some decent players always focus fire clothies. You peak your head out and 3 tanks rush you with an Assassin attached to their side, bam you're dead instantly. It doesn't matter how skilled or experienced you're at the game. If you get a bad team, there is no hope in this game. It's not like CS:GO where you can do a 1 v 5 and carry your team to victory.

There should be no reason for people to sign up with at minimum a single friend in this game. Funcom really needs to remedy this and stop talking about it.

[iCannon]

You are right that minis have a really bad learning curve nowadays. I still remember 2009 and 2010 where even with premades, you had a chance (and time) to try out things and learn a bit. But i do not blame the rewards, i blame the resspadfarmpatch and the power explosion in pvp.

I still disagree about winners and loosers. In terms of the objective, you are right, of course. But this does not mean that playing can not be rewarding for all involved (more or less). There are enoguh games that do this well, imo it comes down to good system design. But that would be another topic for another thread.

When you see the design of the new "pvp" quests, there is another reason to change or add the mini queues...these are worse than old premade vs pugs. And the pug mini queue is not really a pug as well...look at when and how certain people relog to "rebalance" teams...

It has nothing to do with rez pad farming. People naturally dislike losing in competitions. It doesn't take a farming of a rezpad to make players give up. The system they had revamped now works decently for the every day causal player to possibly collect a token, but allowing 2 friends to sign up together, isn't game breaking or going to change much in the pug queue system. As Suctum was saying, nobody enjoys playing solo and seeing their friend on the other team, when they both signed up together to fight side by side.

There are guilds on Crom and Fury that have an abundance of players that all sign up to a mini-game together, avoid each other in pvp during the chaotic points and then focus fire down other players they are against. At least if we could sign up with a single friend, we could retaliate against situations like that. I don't believe queuing with a friend will solve all problems, but it will surely make the game a little more enjoyable then what it is now.

[slackjoint]

Crom has even worse players but the difference is, they're full geared, gemmed out and have max AA and a vast majority of them are tanks. Because there is no teamwork on the bad side, due to not having any coordinated teamwork, the other team that has the possibility of some decent players always focus fire clothies. You peak your head out and 3 tanks rush you with an Assassin attached to their side, bam you're dead instantly. It doesn't matter how skilled or experienced you're at the game. If you get a bad team, there is no hope in this game. It's not like CS:GO where you can do a 1 v 5 and carry your team to victory.

There should be no reason for people to sign up with at minimum a single friend in this game. Funcom really needs to remedy this and stop talking about it.

It can't get any worse than those I am talking about and they play tanks and are at a high pvp level. Actually I couldn't think of anyone of that type on crom , probably because they rather play casters there which makes it still possible to net the occasional kill

[Suctum]

It can't get any worse than those I am talking about and they play tanks and are at a high pvp level. Actually I couldn't think of anyone of that type on crom , probably because they rather play casters there which makes it still possible to net the occasional kill

Actually casters are pretty scarce. It's mainly babs and rangers, as well as a bunch if double bubble conqs. Most games lastbonly a few minutes, because most players rather win on objectives than actual PvP.

[Roddam]

It's really simple. What if raiding was pug only, same system as minis now. Take the newly released. T6 content. Why should only a few elite raiders have access to this content?Only a limited few will enjoy the benefits. Is it really so different than PvP? You have to work as a group with specific tasks to accomplish objectives. PvP is not any different. The only difference is that, unlike raiders, we don't get to pick the best of the best, fully geared players we want. Instead, your punished fir being a better player and put into a system which tries to keep you from taking advantage if that. Not only are you punished for having any kind of skill, but your exploited for it as well. You get forced onto teams with remarkablly bad players, and used to help them win if you want to win. I can't think of any other game that not only makes it terribly hard to play with your friends, but then forces you to level the general population as well. Raiders would not tollerate this, why should pvpers.

You can do PvP as a group with your friends. Just find the 11 or 23 other players you want and make 2 teams for tournament mode. A T6 raid takes just as much or more planning.

[Suctum]

You can do PvP as a group with your friends. Just find the 11 or 23 other players you want and make 2 teams for tournament mode. A T6 raid takes just as much or more planning.

What planning does it take, it's the same group week to week, especially for progression.

[iCannon]

You can do PvP as a group with your friends. Just find the 11 or 23 other players you want and make 2 teams for tournament mode. A T6 raid takes just as much or more planning.

This guy probably works for Funcom.