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Thread: Overpowered PVP EXP Gain (PLS NERF)

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipope View Post
    the difference between t1 pvp and T4+ pve raid gear is however quite real, tenacity doesnt make a shadow of difference and is only useful against tanks who already have their own bubbles, self heals and lifetap on top of the best armor, protection and health pool (damage? ).

    to have weapons earned in pve that are just plain better than pvp 10 weapons without any counterpart is abnormal, they should at best match T1 pvp power.

    the same goes for a sin who already has all the protection in the world, he will have better of everything else on pve raid gear and by quite margin, weapons being the most.

    and pve dps accessories are often better than pvp, while you will be stuck on tank accessories until pvp 7 if you don't do pve.

    all of this can be nit picking but the weapon problem is quite real, a memory cloud and you can get better weapon than pvp 10 and by quite a margin, enticing people to do grind content they dont enjoy after 10x just to get a roll at the better loot.

    give mastery AA in good ammount for pvp leveling, fix t1 pvp gear vs mc farm and im sure it will reduce a lot of frustration from people who want to enjoy only the end game pvp part of the game, open world and do balanced premade etc. ppl always been discouraged because of the pve grind, not becuase they didnt want to compete, as totally opposed to the beginning of the game, right?
    I think your confused. Run around in t4 pve gear and be a target. Yeah, when the pvp armor was garbage that was fine, but now that pvp armor has been adjusted you just don't have the protection needed in t4 armor. Yes, the dps is there, but for most classes the dps of t4 armor is no better than t3 pvp armor. The pve weapons, at least for casters, are actually inferior to t3 pvp weapons. There are a few t3 crafted weapons and some t4/t5 pve which are better for melee, but not by some overwhelming factor. The t4 accessories, yeah, few bits more dps, but no survivability, which is actually the most important stat for most in pvp.

    Progression for pvp is still a little lame, but it's better now than it ever was. Except for when the game launched and because of heroic stats progression didn't matter at all, and neither did gear.
    Doomsayer 2008

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    I think your confused. Run around in t4 pve gear and be a target. Yeah, when the pvp armor was garbage that was fine, but now that pvp armor has been adjusted you just don't have the protection needed in t4 armor. Yes, the dps is there, but for most classes the dps of t4 armor is no better than t3 pvp armor. The pve weapons, at least for casters, are actually inferior to t3 pvp weapons. There are a few t3 crafted weapons and some t4/t5 pve which are better for melee, but not by some overwhelming factor. The t4 accessories, yeah, few bits more dps, but no survivability, which is actually the most important stat for most in pvp.

    Progression for pvp is still a little lame, but it's better now than it ever was. Except for when the game launched and because of heroic stats progression didn't matter at all, and neither did gear.
    Not really mate, to pvp i think it's better having full T4 pve gear with weapon, tank accessories and full AA pve side fresh from raiding and instances than full t1 pvp gear with weapon, tank accessories and full AA pvp side fresh from bori and open world, let alone through minigame where you will not reach max AA in 1/5 of the time you do in pve anyway.

    About the comparison yeah it's not the end of the world when you are already pvp 10 but quick example:

    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...lords_dirk.jpg and http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...e_dark_sun.jpg

    Better in both damage and survivability, right? Once you get them in your pve raid you can sell your pvp 10 rusty daggers because they are no use for both pve and pvp anymore, yes? Should i compare them to what people who are actually pvping for a long while get when reaching t2 pvp weapons? T1 pvp? Oh, wait... T6 pve raid is on test live and almost done i heard, yes?

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipope View Post
    Not really mate, to pvp i think it's better having full T4 pve gear with weapon, tank accessories and full AA pve side fresh from raiding and instances than full t1 pvp gear with weapon, tank accessories and full AA pvp side fresh from bori and open world, let alone through minigame where you will not reach max AA in 1/5 of the time you do in pve anyway.

    About the comparison yeah it's not the end of the world when you are already pvp 10 but quick example:

    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...lords_dirk.jpg and http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...e_dark_sun.jpg

    Better in both damage and survivability, right? Once you get them in your pve raid you can sell your pvp 10 rusty daggers because they are no use for both pve and pvp anymore, yes? Should i compare them to what people who are actually pvping for a long while get when reaching t2 pvp weapons? T1 pvp? Oh, wait... T6 pve raid is on test live and almost done i heard, yes?
    Well, you certainly are confused. Your talking about t5 pve items, not t4. And for melee yes, some of the t5 and t3 weapons are slightly more desirable than t3 pvp but they certainly are not going to be game changers. As for accessories, what do you mean by tank accessories? There are 2 sets of damage rings until you reach 7, then there is a variety of rings and capes which offer numerous stats. I really don't get what your point is, so far I have fought people still using t4 and some with t5 pve gear and they simply melt in seconds when focused.

    As for your AA gripe, I don't see it. I maxed out my Prowess long before I maxed out my PvE side.
    Doomsayer 2008

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    Well, you certainly are confused. Your talking about t5 pve items, not t4. And for melee yes, some of the t5 and t3 weapons are slightly more desirable than t3 pvp but they certainly are not going to be game changers. As for accessories, what do you mean by tank accessories? There are 2 sets of damage rings until you reach 7, then there is a variety of rings and capes which offer numerous stats. I really don't get what your point is, so far I have fought people still using t4 and some with t5 pve gear and they simply melt in seconds when focused.

    As for your AA gripe, I don't see it. I maxed out my Prowess long before I maxed out my PvE side.
    To understand my point requires not to tunnel vision already pvp 10 maxed out character raiding end game pve on crom every week, I was refering to my previous post with sin raid weapon and I am highlighting the clear flaws of pvp progression as opposed to it's pve counterpart and future extra nuisances (t6?) if it will remain the same, as in topic?

    What you have done personally doesn't change anything here, talking about mastery gain in pve as opposed to pvp wouldn't be too relevant if all the passive protection, hit rating and critical rating useful for pvp werent on this side and were replaced by 5% passive cc resist and 500 spell penetration or evade rating! However it is relevant and guess what, it's much faster through pve grind than pvp.

    The same can be said about http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...s_greatbow.jpg and http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...ing_dragon.jpg pvp pvp T3 and pve T4, ranged character, right?

    You can get the first after months and months, a year for some, of accumulating pvp xp while the latter is obtainable in a couple of week doing pug raid on crom global channel.

    In fact by the time the avid pve raider gets his http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...ing_dragon.jpg, http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...s_greatbow.jpg is what the pvp focused player will have at the very best playing hardcore (even then...). For a casual pvp focused player playing as often as a casual raid logger, http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...s_greatbow.jpg is what the pvper will have most likely.

    Another interesting comparison is http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...ng_shadows.jpg and http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...f_fluidity.jpg.

    The first can be obtained in a couple of weeks of pug raid on crom global channel, the second is requiring minimum pvp 7 (T3 pvp). 40 constitution instead of 50 for almost double the damage is not bad for a dps oriented jewel without any survivability. The pvp jewel is completely useless in pve because the entirety of it's damage is labeled pvp only but why the pve necklace is the best for damage in both pve and pvp?

    All in all i am just being on topic, pvp progression, nothing to take personally and certainly no gripe from me

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    And the difference from t1 PvP armor to t3 is nominal. ... If there is any balance issue, it's AA, the gear is realtivly balanced now.
    That is a myth. By way of example, here's the key (aggregated) stat differences between the ToS T3 v T1 pvp sets (using the T3 def accessories, since there is no dmg necklace and cape for T1):

    magic damage: +214,4 +21,38%
    crit chance: +120 +31,17%
    crit dmg: +121 +32,10%
    armor: +864 +14,88%
    prot: +370 +16,74%
    critigation: +998 +46,38%

    These are not nominal differences - they are quite substantial both in absolute and in relative terms.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  6. #36

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    This thread was about xp gain, and it is now about how PvE gear is an issue in PvP and how T1 PvP set is vastly inferior to T3 one.

    First, PvE gear is not ideal for PvP, at all. People who think that don't go into minis in T5 gear, they just get wrecked by a T5 ranger or barb and think it's the T5 gear. Yet, in T5 gear, your survival is very low.
    So yes you have fire power with T5 gear, but you're a glass canon, and the way you play is conditionned by that, meaning you're much less of an asset to your team than if you were using PvP gear and were able to actually take part in the fight.

    You see those T5 HoX just landing BtD and getting kills thanks to that, but they are super squishy and you get fooled in thinking they are useful to their team. Truth is, they are not. A HoX with PvP gear will have a much more positive impact on the fight.

    Same for T5 rangers, they have damage output, as long as they stand 50 meters away and can pew pew from a distance. But that means 0 support for their team, no useful cc at all.
    Mmh, now i think about it, that's just a regular ranger i guess, but still, T5 gear means pussy gameplay and (maybe?) slighly more dps than PvP gear, and not even much tbh, my own ranger is almost full T5 and i don't see much of a difference compared to PvP geared rangers. As far as i can tell, the damage output is pretty much the same.


    Now regarding T1 and T3 PvP sets, there is indeed a difference, but it's not an issue, because the T1 PvP set is enough to survive, be competitive and take part, which is what we expect from it. So the fact that there is gear progression is ok, since the entry set is still good regardless.

    Now, i still believe that there should be 4 PvP sets, the T1 one we have now should be available for like 5-10 G in game at lvl 0, right off the bat. And at lvl 2-4 there should be an extra set, like T1.5 per say, with the same look as T2 and just slightly inferior stats.

    Because again, for the 1000th time, the fact that there is no entry PvP set for starter at lvl 0 is a complete nonsense. Any sain game designer Edit by Anzu: None of that would reckon that, and yet FC are so Edit by Anzu: None of that that they keep going against the obvious and dare to sell that entry PvP set for real money in the shop.

    So in the end, the XP gain issue only exists because to start playing Pvp, the average noob needs to reach lvl 4, which does take some time for many newbies.
    If there was that entry PvP set at lvl 0, then the xp gain would be a non issue, no one would give a damn, just because you don't need to reach a certain level to start playing the damn game.


    Anyway, when you consider the way PvP progression is designed in AoC, you don't wonder why FC is bankrupt. The cool stuff they could monetize, they don't, and instead they try to monetize essentiel elements of the gameplay, just wtf ^^.
    Last edited by Anzu; 21st September 2015 at 10:01.
    {Circle of Eternity}
    Mellaus
    Lachdanann dt | Aldebarrand guard | Ataraxes demo | Tangorogrim tos | Aranruth barb | Demether pom | Errant ranger | Diluvien sin | Hekatomb necro | Haemmer bs | Nyarlathotep tos

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus View Post
    This thread was about xp gain, and it is now about how PvE gear is an issue in PvP and how T1 PvP set is vastly inferior to T3 one.
    ...
    Now regarding T1 and T3 PvP sets, there is indeed a difference, but it's not an issue, because the T1 PvP set is enough to survive, be competitive and take part, which is what we expect from it. So the fact that there is gear progression is ok, since the entry set is still good regardless.

    ... for the 1000th time, the fact that there is no entry PvP set for starter at lvl 0 is a complete nonsense. Any sain game designer Edit by Anzu: None of that would reckon that, and yet FC are so Edit by Anzu: None of that that they keep going against the obvious and dare to sell that entry PvP set for real money in the shop.
    Absolutely agree that the lack of a starter set is a much more significant problem than progression after pvp T1. My only point was to show was that the stat difference between pvp T1 and T3 is by no means "nominal", as Suctum claimed, but rather quite significant. Which is relevant to the topic of the thread - vertical power progression is less of a problem if progression is fast.
    Last edited by Anzu; 21st September 2015 at 10:01.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    Absolutely agree that the lack of a starter set is a much more significant problem than progression after pvp T1. My only point was to show was that the stat difference between pvp T1 and T3 is by no means "nominal", as Suctum claimed, but rather quite significant. Which is relevant to the topic of the thread - vertical power progression is less of a problem if progression is fast.
    Agreed, also the difference between pvp t1 and many pve T4 (let alone t5) items with at bare minimum the power of pvp7-10 items are obtained outrageously faster than their respective counterpart T3 pvp making them the ultimate starter set for pvp and you need to grind pve content for that, the difference is by no mean "nominal" like mellaus is trying to say in the first part of his post.
    Vertical progression is less of a problem if progression is fast and fair for all playstyles.

    Also it seems mellaus view pvp as exclusively minigames and it's understandable if crom is his only homeland. If for example you take the daily Bounty hunter quest for open world or even the daily kill quests, you will want all the firepower you can get to ensure your kills, unless you are fond of kill trading and only dueling your friends but that's another story. you will want to use your pve t4+ set and superior weapons instead of your t1 set, let alone your shielding accessories if you arent pvp 7+ yet unless you enjoy being carried...

    to make a really viable and meaningful entry pvp set for all newbies interested by pvp you need the following:

    -make all passive protection from mastery AA >(pve only) --- as it should have been from the start??
    -make all white perk (crit) from general AA >(pve only) --- as it should have been from the start??
    -make all T4+ items and armor crit rating > (pve only)
    -copy all the base stats except crit rating/dmg and protection from the current t1 set to the new entry set
    -add all the passive protection from AA > (pvp only) to the new entry set
    -add all the crit and hit rating from AA > (pvp only) to the new entry set
    -successively add the prot and crit bonus to the other pvp tiers

    by this alone you will have made a big move in favor of the entry pvp progression while keeping pve balance untouched and ppl will be interested by progressing through pvp rather than just pve and steamroll everything below pvp 7 once full pve t4+/t3 craft.
    what do u think about this mellaus?

  9. #39

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    Now pvp gear is fine imo, for current tiers is ok. I would never prefer t4 pve gear to t3 pvp gear, which is by far perfect for pvp on most of classes imo. Even this weapons comparison between t5 and t3 pvp shows well how good pvp weapons are atm, it has almost same stats and like 2 dips more and a bit of crit rating, this meaningless.
    Cripples gonna cripple

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarhal View Post
    Now pvp gear is fine imo, for current tiers is ok. I would never prefer t4 pve gear to t3 pvp gear, which is by far perfect for pvp on most of classes imo. Even this weapons comparison between t5 and t3 pvp shows well how good pvp weapons are atm, it has almost same stats and like 2 dips more and a bit of crit rating, this meaningless.
    Yes, the comparison shows that a pve weapon is in every aspect better for pvp (and pve..) than the best of pvp weapons earned after a year of pvp, which is by far perfect considering the opposite is absolutely invalid, right? The only reason to prefer pvp t3 over pve t4+ is for minigame and that's not including weapon and accessories but the real point is pvp t1 gear is still pvp gear and real trash as compared to high end pve gear.

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