Re: New Solo Dungeon Idea.

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

The OP talks about raid rare tokens (see Post 1), that means Rare T3/4/5. You are talking a lot about rare tokens, too, but it seems you mean rare trophies / khitai rares? Because with rare raid tokens (+normal raid tokens) you can buy raid gear. Period.

And we are talking about higher tiers (T4/5). Ninjaing there is no problem atm, and from a raidleaders point of view I can only say that I have zero interest in taking those people you are refering to ("I only need to do the raid a few times or once for my progression, but otherwise I don't like to raid") with me. Not into higher raids. They are no evening event you can switch on like your beloved tv-series, let the raidleader carry you through and leave as you like. It takes a lot of efford and time to lead high raid tiers sucessfully, and they are not there to please someone who wants to jump in, take or get what he wants and jump out right away. It is teamwork, and for those who like it and have fun and want to progress together as a team. Don't get me wrong: I am all in when it comes to teaching newbies how to raid, but I really hate the idea that raids are "content" you have a "right" to play, without thinking about the fact, that some few people make those raids happen, and that they are not a feature that is included in your monthly fee. Raiding is a different playstyle, if you don't like it, don't do it, no one forces you. Unless you have the funny idea that you should be able to get all the gear that is ingame without playing the content the gear belongs to. And because the power stats are not that much different (comparing unchained and T4), it is no argument that you can not progress to a very high powerlevel without raiding. I also like the idea that your gear shows which content you prefer.

I get it that you want more options for progression, but there ARE very many different options allready. Keeping raid gear to raids doesn't mean to keep content away from anyone, it just means if you don't like a special content you will not get the gear you can get there. I don't like PvP, I'm not that much into 6mans, I don't like the box-lottery the unchained quests offer, and that means I will not get the gear you can get if you enjoy that kind of playstyle.

I think we can agree to disagree, because I just don't get the point why anyone would want to have raid gear without raiding.

I agree that there is not really enough stuff to do for groups of 2-5 people, and it would be really great to have an option to progress (really progress, not just having fun in easy places together) with smaller groups.

totally agree with this. the khitai gear is more than enough to play solo, even the blue faction one, and is even better than t1/t2 (so, the argument that wb drops raid gear is rather silly)...
actually, in some occasions the khitai gear is even more useful than t5!!

so... /signed

( the post i quoted, of course, not the op!! )

[Kurt2013]

totally agree with this. the khitai gear is more than enough to play solo, even the blue faction one, and is even better than t1/t2 (so, the argument that wb drops raid gear is rather silly)...
actually, in some occasions the khitai gear is even more useful than t5!!

so... /signed

( the post i quoted, of course, not the op!! )

So it seems i misunderstand part of the OP. Sadly, i hoped for more alternatives in getting these rare trophies

But even for raid tokens, the answers i gave in points 8 and 5 are still valid. In my eyes there is a huge difference between something not existing or being very limited. I agree with you on the terms that it should always be faster to progress in terms of raid gear by raiding alone, but it is not imperative that you have to be ONLY raiding in my eyes (as long as you participate in raiding of the appropiate tiers in general).

And funcom themselves have already violated this by the exchange rates. You can now farm only world boss and get raid gear without having EVER raided before. Afaik this was not what the OP had in mind. I do not understand the violent rage against the OPs ideas, seriously...it was even asked for better ideas, which i totally miss from the other side.

Bottom line: I still like the idea of new solo dungeons, maybe expandable to small groups with actual useful rewards to reduce the grind at endgame. What kind of tokens are all included and how much seems obviously argueable (just look at this thread)...but is a solveable problem, if people actually keep civil.

[Darm]

I too am against the OP if it means the solo dungeons enable you to get raid gear (either directly from drops or via tokens).

I don't expect to be able to acquire raid gear without raiding, the same way I don't expect to be able to acquire PVP gear without PVP'ing

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

there was an idea that i found quite interesting (i don't remember if it was here or on tl, and i don't have time to look for it now), which was to add a quest like the one for unchained dungeons, to get a mystical excavator's kit or an acheronian cache, when you have done all the solo dungeons...

i'd put something like a weekly cooldown on that quest, but other than that, it may spice up things a bit...

[magnum92]

Considering Funcom:s restricted economy, we really have to think about what we want, we cant have it all, darn we cant even have anything. Soooo, screw solo-dungeons and focus on the main activities that people who pay for this game does the most, Group and Raid activities. And no, if you dont raid, you wont need raid gear. Raids are like a staircase, you get the gear to be able to take a step up, and it goes on. If you're not walking up that staircase, dont dress for it You will be fine with whatever gear you have, and other alternatives are already in your reach.

[Rathothis]

C Soooo, screw solo-dungeons and focus on the main activities that people who pay for this game does the most, Group and Raid activities. And no, if you dont raid, you wont need raid gear. ...
If you're not walking up that staircase, dont dress for it

See, there's a problem with your logic: you want FC to build the staircase higher and higher. But as it gets higher, more and more people get exhausted and fall back. That's why they also need to build an escalator, so the ones near the top of the staircase don't feel too alone.

That said,
* while solo players should have something worthwhile to do, obtaining raid gear isn't the only activity in game;
* it would be absurd if you could collect raid tokens via solo content, but not via group dungeons.

Personally, I hope that crafting will take care of OP's concerns. FC could add rare crafting mats to solo dungeons (ideally, conditional on completing them in a certain way / within a certain time etc). Solo players can then sell these on the trader. If raid mats are also tradable (and I hope they will be, just like shards were), we'll indirectly arrive at an exchange rate of x amount of rare solo mats = 1 rare raid mat.

Remember that, back in the good old days of T2, this meant that a solo player who grinded zillions of mats actually was able to obtain the best weapon in the game (Ibis). I don't think this was a bad system. It didn't make raids superfluous, as both shards and the recipe were required to craft Ibis swords. Nor did it make raids unattractive, as the time investment in grinding mats and selling them for money was much larger than the investment in acquiring these mats via raids.

So, overall, I think that the crafting revamp, if done right, will take care of OP's concern. In that case, the only question that remains is whether the mats should be added to existing solo content, or whether FC should develop new solo dungeons. Given FC's limited resources, I'd tend to agree with you that new solo dungeons should be pretty low on the priorities list (even though in an ideal world, it would be course be nice to have new solo content as well).

[Reinauer]

FUNCOMs budget paid for an Achievement system that maybe 10 people asked for. If they have the ability to program THAT and side-bar the crafting-revamp; why not give us a way to get T4+ gear?

"Raiding" is a subjective term that some people feel constitutes 12 or more people. I don't recall the word ever being defined numerically anywhere. You can do a panty-raid solo.

.

[gcustoms]

Im fine with this as long as there is a speed run concept! Love that ****

A fine concept, but what about guardians?

Unless the timer is different for each class.

[Chillee]

I've never got this whole bit. This is an MMO. Multiplayer.

Someone else said it above: the unchained dungeons and DS dungeons drop gear almost on par with T4. In a few cases, better than T4. But solo instances to get raid gear? What's the point? What you guys are looking for isn't an MMO. It's a single player game, or a single/coop game like diablo.

Join a guild that raids T4 or higher if you want the gear. It's not rocket science. If you can play your class reasonably well, there's plenty of guilds who can use you that are in T4 and higher or would like to be.

[cins]

What you all think you write:

No to solo raiding because...

What you actually write:

We all know raiding is no fun and we're doing it only for pixels and if any other way to get those pixels existed all raiding would die off and then we couldn't look down upon the havenots

Prove me wrong.