Important little side-note which people maining a caster-class like to ignore completely: It's easy for a spellcaster class to dodge a KB by double-tapping, indeed, but since melees are in white-hit animation almost all the time during a fight, it's WAY harder for a melee class to dodge said KB, since the white-hit animation prevents you from executing the double-tap, which isn't the case while casting a spell. So: »It's all too easy« for a spell-caster, yes, but not easy at all for a melee-player.
Why would you be in white hit animation during an entire fight? Hitting openers is a big deal when it comes to melee dps. Running around like an idiot trying to white hit stagger so you can land one finisher is not how a seasoned player fights. Besides, there is only a few instant KB in game, the rest are .5-1 second cast times. How can you not react to that? You can't double tap a repulse because your white hitting...come on. I am trash on my melee's and I can almost always double tap detonation, how can you not anticipate some demo running straight up to you and not think they are not going for the KB? And I am smart enough to cancel combo animation to double tap, your saying anyone less than a mediocre player can't do this because they are white hitting the air for no reason? I would agree with that but that's not what your really saying.
Doomsayer 2008
It's definitely way easier with a caster in general though. Cancelling a spell is easier and more responsive than cancelling a combo or waiting for a white hit animation to end. As a caster you tend to have more "free time" where you're not locked in any animation so even with a sub-par latency you shouldn't have a hard time double tapping at all.
Expert Shield of the Risen opener.
Edit by Anzu: It could have been a good post, sadly it's not. Be more respectful of your fellow players.
Last edited by Anzu; 27th May 2015 at 19:45.
What does class complexity have to do with what you said. "melee's can't double tap because they are in white hit animation". How are you in constant white hit animation. You make it sound like your some terrible player running around whiffing white hits only to perpetuate staggers. I bring that up because half the people in minis play like that. A DT who opens up with DP or Mind Shatter, a Conq who doesn't even take the time to debuff and get his combat bonus up, I can go on with all the terrible game play I see.
I know when I play melee's, I can usually double tap most KB because you can anticipate the almost script like rotations of players. Against a good player, maybe not as often but it's definitely doable to a point. Is it easier on a caster, sure, your not doing white hits, your not setting up combos- But don't act like it's much harder on a melee class. The only thing that really makes it hard is high ping, which unfortunately a lot of EU players have to deal with. The ping really has more to do with it than your scribble of numbers.
Edit by Anzu: Not needed anymore. I know it's possible to double tap KB often against most players because I do it all the time on my guard...but I play usually with less than 40 ping so I am not having to anticipate more than what the opponent is going to do next, rather than what he is doing 2-5 seconds later like most other players, especially EU.
Last edited by Anzu; 27th May 2015 at 17:37.
Doomsayer 2008
Suctum, a seasoned fighter plays like a p**sy and white hits into the air. Some of us think that is retarded and try to actualy land white hits on players, as was intended and as is much more immersive. Hell, even with lags it's hard to dodge KBs when you are 110% sure you are being kbed, as your character seems to only move twice to one side instead of starting the double tap animation (and no I am no cross breed between a turtle and a snail not being able to press a button twice within an hour). There's really no denying that casters don't need to bother with any of this nonsense
Oh, and post some action on youtube. I'd like to see more proof of how cool and fluid the game is overseas.
Edit: And for the record, u CAN cancel a white hit, by swapping weapons, but that pretty much leaves you open for 0.2 seconds or so with no possibility to double tap and your combo will be forfeited.
Last edited by SamHam; 27th May 2015 at 19:04.
I read your post several times before replying. It's basically just a rant about the caster class in general, with a blatant disrespect and disdain for anyone playing a non melee class mixed with an air of elitism arrogance for people who specialize in melee classes. You throw out some numbers to legitimize your belief that casters essentially are aim bots that have few factors contributing to reaction time, and that people playing melee classes are at a disadvantage concerning an exploitation because of how their mechanics work and how that affects their reaction time. Your also implying that because melee classes are more complex (which can be argued), that you have more going on to slow your reaction time as opposed to a caster just wiping their face across the keyboard.
I disagree it's infinitely harder to double tap on one class opposed to another, regardless of white hits or not. I think it's harder on a melee class, but not by much and not to the degree your portraying. I think there are several melee classes which if played a certain way could be complex, but that's not how most players choose to play. Most combos are one step, it's not like your stuck with 4-5 step combos, I get that a large percentage of your time is spent in a white hit animation, but it's not constant. I know white hits have a duration, but it's not something that is game breaking.
If I did not play a single melee class I could understand your reaction to my post, but clearly I do and I am telling you despite all your numbers, it's very far from super difficult to react to a number of KB animations. If anything, ping is still the biggest factor in reaction time. Some one at 32 ping (which I normally play at), SHOULD have a better natural reaction time than someone at 290 ping. I never said it was not difficult to react and that white hits were not a limiting factor, it's just far from being classified as extremely hard.
I really don't get the QQ and personal attacks. I am talking about general minis that are filled with unskilled players. If you were talking about premades, where .20 seconds make a difference, and player skill level was taken into account, I would agree with you that melee's are at an extreme disadvantage because of how the limitation of the animation works. But we are not, we are talking about minis in 2015, and they are pug only with a large amount of low skilled players that probably don't even know that you can even double tap a KB. Such a low threshold of skill makes it very easy to anticipate and land the double tap, which is my point.
Theory Crafting is fine, but when you do you need to make it relative to the environment we are in. Someone who combo jumps or double taps a KB most likely does not even need to against 4/5 of the people in minis at this moment. I know last WB I was double tapping the KB effect almost every time on multiple classes and I got loads of tells from players I was a cheater and a hacker.
Last edited by Suctum; 28th May 2015 at 15:14.
Doomsayer 2008