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Thread: PvP vs PvE

  1. #1

    Default PvP vs PvE

    Hello.
    Just looking over some threads and seeing some player frustration about pvp players needing to grind pve donjons to get PvE armour.
    Seeing some hate going on about pvp killing pve donjons because the playstyles arent compatible.

    Thinking about this made we wanna throw some ideas out there... see what people think.

    Why are there PVE raids in PVP servers? Can't the Raid maps be transformed into PvP arenas? With like PVP goals to achieve in each one? Capture goals points in Vistrix.. Capture the Flag in Halls of Eternal Frost. Survivor mode in Yakmar.. Free for all in the instance underneath Keshetta (cant remember the name) With all points, etc going towards getting PVP armour and in PVP servers, skills are balanced differently to PVE servers in ensure that some flavour of the month cant be made by number crunching.. That way PVP can be balanced without breaking PVE and PVE can be developped without bringing down the rage from the pvp'ers.

    Or..

    Bring both servers together and let people choose the gameworld rules that they want to log to when they load up the map. So people who want to openworld pvp load up in a map without trashmobs and rocks to bash and just enjoy the maps for pvp'ing. People who want to PVE can do so without being ganked from behind whilst taking on a mob.

    Also, one thing I cant understand.. If you're doing enough PVP to get to level 10 and full on PVP armour, why do these skillful players who master their class and skill rotation and placement movements need to be harder to kill and do more damage than the people who are starting up pvp??
    Cant PvP levels just give access to alternative playing fields. Or make minimaps team up people of a similiar skill level.. Like after pvp 5 you only get to pvp people from level 5-10 but you get more xp and levels and armour become vanity pieces that shows off leetness rather than giving hardcore players even more advantage over newer players in pvp..

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlipso View Post
    Hello.
    Just looking over some threads and seeing some player frustration about pvp players needing to grind pve donjons to get PvE armour.
    Seeing some hate going on about pvp killing pve donjons because the playstyles arent compatible.

    Thinking about this made we wanna throw some ideas out there... see what people think.

    Why are there PVE raids in PVP servers? Can't the Raid maps be transformed into PvP arenas? With like PVP goals to achieve in each one? Capture goals points in Vistrix.. Capture the Flag in Halls of Eternal Frost. Survivor mode in Yakmar.. Free for all in the instance underneath Keshetta (cant remember the name) With all points, etc going towards getting PVP armour and in PVP servers, skills are balanced differently to PVE servers in ensure that some flavour of the month cant be made by number crunching.. That way PVP can be balanced without breaking PVE and PVE can be developped without bringing down the rage from the pvp'ers.

    Or..

    Bring both servers together and let people choose the gameworld rules that they want to log to when they load up the map. So people who want to openworld pvp load up in a map without trashmobs and rocks to bash and just enjoy the maps for pvp'ing. People who want to PVE can do so without being ganked from behind whilst taking on a mob.

    Also, one thing I cant understand.. If you're doing enough PVP to get to level 10 and full on PVP armour, why do these skillful players who master their class and skill rotation and placement movements need to be harder to kill and do more damage than the people who are starting up pvp??
    Cant PvP levels just give access to alternative playing fields. Or make minimaps team up people of a similiar skill level.. Like after pvp 5 you only get to pvp people from level 5-10 but you get more xp and levels and armour become vanity pieces that shows off leetness rather than giving hardcore players even more advantage over newer players in pvp..
    There is no need to grind pve anymore for pvp players, after pvp gear revamp, and no,
    PVE server is just restricted server from pvp server, U could think that pvp server 100% from games content, pve server, disabled open pvp expect in certain areas.
    Gear is least of your problems, biggest problem is AA, even if fresh 80 toon would have pvp 10 set he would get stomped in pvp by old toons. if the toon would be pvp t1 set and maxed aa, it would have much greater chance of doing proper pvp than with low aa.
    The Law

  3. #3

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    PvP and PvE aren't incompatible and when instanciated don't collide much unless you have the aberration we had for several years where PvE gear was almost compulsory to compete in PvP. Now that this has been more or less fixed (it could still be better but it's so much better than before that i don't think it's worth a debate).

    So basicly two things to distinguish. Instanciated content and open world content.
    Instanciated content, raids, dungeon and Minigames (or sieges even), are somewhat outside of the game. When you're in those you're blocked in an "arena" with given rules you can not bend. It's purely consensual and since most players, enjoy a bit of PvE and PvP at the same time it's no probleme to have these on both in my opinion.

    The main conflict is when pvp becomes potentially unconsensual when it can be spontaneous, imposed while you were doing something else. For some that's an issue, for others that's a strenght. Personnaly, i dislike the concept of flagging yourself in PvP or PvE mode because it destroys the immersion i use to have on PvP servers. I simply loved questing and having to watch my surrounding, plan exit strategies if i where to get attacked while in a bad situation, killing mobs near places you could brake LoS easily while keeping an eye on your CDs to deal with occasionnal gankers. I enjoyed the cohesion it encouraged in guilds to play together and help each other when roaming in open-world. I loved the conflicts this induced. You'll tell me that being able to flag yourself in PvE or PvP mode won't change a thing but it does, it reduces the impact open-world has on the environement. Roaming in AoC won't be an adventure anymore if you have an easy way out of hairy situations. And even if you decide you'll never tap out... having people who can and will is a turn off.

    Anyway... that's the theorie. Nowdays merging servers is just about squeezing what's left of life out of this game, it's not about construction
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaman-bourru View Post
    Personnaly, i dislike the concept of flagging yourself in PvP or PvE mode because it destroys the immersion i use to have on PvP servers. I simply loved questing and having to watch my surrounding, plan exit strategies if i where to get attacked while in a bad situation, killing mobs near places you could brake LoS easily while keeping an eye on your CDs to deal with occasionnal gankers. I enjoyed the cohesion it encouraged in guilds to play together and help each other when roaming in open-world. I loved the conflicts this induced. You'll tell me that being able to flag yourself in PvE or PvP mode won't change a thing but it does, it reduces the impact open-world has on the environement. Roaming in AoC won't be an adventure anymore if you have an easy way out of hairy situations. And even if you decide you'll never tap out... having people who can and will is a turn off.
    Literally couldn't agree more. Some of the best moments I've ever had in Conan is where me and a buddy would be questing and we get attacked by a small group. The times that we would wipe them and the mobs (very often) brought some of the biggest laughs and smiles. I know there are others that don't like danger, but it excites me... makes the game feel substantial. I don't think a flag system works well ever, especially not when there's a much more simple solution: Merge servers and include select-able zones with PVE, Epic, PVP (w/+20% PVP XP when in PVP zone) and one daily PVP zone. It's literally a win-win for everyone, it's easy for funcom, literally nothing is changed for PVE'ers, and PVPers have a joined population that promotes consensual PVP.
    Last edited by Usedtissue; 17th February 2015 at 23:11.
    Usedtissue Necro 10//Emptycan ToS 7//Puggles HoX 6//Ammagaden Guard 5//Trollololo Conq 5//Bottlecap DT 2

    PM me to sign the Minigame buddy sign-up petition: (http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthr...40#post2135540)

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usedtissue View Post
    Merge servers and include select-able zones with PVE, Epic, PVP (w/+20% PVP XP when in PVP zone) and one daily PVP zone
    AHAHAHAHAH. No.

    If there's a choice for pve and pvp instances, there's no need for a pvp daily zone in the pve instances. That would be enforcing pvp to players that don't want/don't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angellis
    Off-topic: I would pay a lifetime sub if FC changed the name of Strike to Guard to the "Oh sh*t" combo! The tooltip could read: "The guardian realises they are now in over their head, and, having soiled themselves, are less likely to receive attention from their target."

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephturi View Post
    AHAHAHAHAH. No.

    If there's a choice for pve and pvp instances, there's no need for a pvp daily zone in the pve instances. That would be enforcing pvp to players that don't want/don't like it.
    I'm assuming you play on Crom? You realize I never once said to have the PVP daily zone in a PVE instance... Why would you possibly have that?
    Usedtissue Necro 10//Emptycan ToS 7//Puggles HoX 6//Ammagaden Guard 5//Trollololo Conq 5//Bottlecap DT 2

    PM me to sign the Minigame buddy sign-up petition: (http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthr...40#post2135540)

  7. #7

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    I'm currently on Crom, but I'm from Stygia, RP-pvp. I'm one of those guys that used to help people against griefers, and keep WSI clean so newbies could do their quests.

    But do tell me, what's the use of a daily pvp zone in a pvp instance? Isn't like saying there will be a daily epic zone in the epic instance?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angellis
    Off-topic: I would pay a lifetime sub if FC changed the name of Strike to Guard to the "Oh sh*t" combo! The tooltip could read: "The guardian realises they are now in over their head, and, having soiled themselves, are less likely to receive attention from their target."

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephturi View Post
    I'm currently on Crom, but I'm from Stygia, RP-pvp. I'm one of those guys that used to help people against griefers, and keep WSI clean so newbies could do their quests.

    But do tell me, what's the use of a daily pvp zone in a pvp instance? Isn't like saying there will be a daily epic zone in the epic instance?
    Do u even know what the daily pvp zone is? there is 4 quests, kill players 0/5,0/15,0/40 and you get campaing badges + bori tokens + pvp xp
    kiilling someone carrying pictish packet, again tokens + xp
    bounty quest, small amount pvp xp
    delivering packages u get AA points

    and good for pve leveling too
    The Law

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephturi View Post
    I'm currently on Crom, but I'm from Stygia, RP-pvp. I'm one of those guys that used to help people against griefers, and keep WSI clean so newbies could do their quests.

    But do tell me, what's the use of a daily pvp zone in a pvp instance? Isn't like saying there will be a daily epic zone in the epic instance?
    You have no idea how it works on Fury do you? Daily pvp zone = pvp zone where guards are inactive and basic pvp quests are available (kill x number of players etc. but no flags or anything like the festival event). It rotates every day between the same zones that are used for the monthly pvp festival. Those simple quests are enough to motivate people to log in the zone so there's always a bit of pvp there (sometimes a lot), despite Fury's low pop.

    I think it could even be the ONLY zone on Crom with a pvp instance if you ask me (so we are sure all the pvpers are in one same place), since I really doubt people will use the pvp instance of the other zones while doing generic questing/levelling anyway (sadly, but hard to remedy that at this point).
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  10. #10

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    I know exactly how it works. My point is, if you're talking about changes, don't talk about things not changing. Since there already is a daily zone on Fury and we're talking about changing the servers to different instances of a new unique server, each and every currently available feature would be available as well after the hypothetical merge. So no need to mention it, unless you want to add some confusion to the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angellis
    Off-topic: I would pay a lifetime sub if FC changed the name of Strike to Guard to the "Oh sh*t" combo! The tooltip could read: "The guardian realises they are now in over their head, and, having soiled themselves, are less likely to receive attention from their target."

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