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Thread: barbarian speed buff needs revamp

  1. #51

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    It's hard to argue whether a class is "OP" or "LOL" if there is little agreement as to what that means. For example, if "LOL" means "easymode as ranger" (I think it does), barb certainly is not LOL.

    As to where barb stands at the moment, I guess Ensifer's recent videos provide a good illustration. And by that, I don't mean how Ensifer does himself, because he is the kind of player who would make even the most gimped class shine. Rather, watch both videos again and focus on the barb on the other team (Nuclearr). Then look at how he does compared to the guards.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    It's hard to argue whether a class is "OP" or "LOL" if there is little agreement as to what that means. For example, if "LOL" means "easymode as ranger" (I think it does), barb certainly is not LOL.

    As to where barb stands at the moment, I guess Ensifer's recent videos provide a good illustration. And by that, I don't mean how Ensifer does himself, because he is the kind of player who would make even the most gimped class shine. Rather, watch both videos again and focus on the barb on the other team (Nuclearr). Then look at how he does compared to the guards.
    That's only one example though, Ensifer is playing hybrid (which is squishy but has a bit more sustained damage than zerker through lower cooldowns). We don't know what would have happened had be been playing zerker anyway.

    Notice how in the first vid where the guard got 17/0 the hox in the opposing team went 3/23? And zerker barb (that isn't familiar to me but has t3 crafted blunt at least) went 12/4 (better than the other two guards including one not hindered by the flag), not too bad (although it's puzzling since zerker barb has way more burst than guard following the frenzy nerf and I think Vosslor had the flag)
    Second vid shows a completely different picture where the two guards don't die but hardly kill anything either (though they were flagging of course).

    3/23 is a shocking score for a hox post gear/class revamp, something is fishy here. But let's not derail the topic...
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    That's only one example though, Ensifer is playing hybrid (which is squishy but has a bit more sustained damage than zerker through lower cooldowns). We don't know what would have happened had be been playing zerker anyway.

    Notice how in the first vid where the guard got 17/0 the hox in the opposing team went 3/23? And zerker barb (that isn't familiar to me but has t3 crafted blunt at least) went 12/4 (better than the other two guards including one not hindered by the flag), not too bad (although it's puzzling since zerker barb has way more burst than guard following the frenzy nerf and I think Vosslor had the flag)
    Second vid shows a completely different picture where the two guards don't die but hardly kill anything either (though they were flagging of course).

    3/23 is a shocking score for a hox post gear/class revamp, something is fishy here. But let's not derail the topic...
    Well if you look at the HoX, he is pvp level 2 with some BB gear and an old-world raid sword. The other team is pvp 10 guard, necro and barb, pvp 9 BS and ranger, and pvp 5 PoM. Shocking? Not sure.

    Also, the presence of the HoX probably explains why the zerker barb went 12/4 in the first video, while he went 5/10 in the second when there was no lowbie on the other team. Again, doesn't look that OP to me.

    Now you may say that this is just an example. But quite frankly, what I see in this thread is very good PvPers complaining that the buff to barb was not needed. But (i) if players like Surgery or you didn't need a buff to barb, that doesn't mean that barb is now OP, and (ii) in any case, I am not sure whether any class should be analysed based on how a player like Surgery or you performs in a random mini context. Fact is that barb can now be very powerful, but there are plenty of barbs who are still not able to pull it off.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    It's hard to argue whether a class is "OP" or "LOL" if there is little agreement as to what that means. For example, if "LOL" means "easymode as ranger" (I think it does), barb certainly is not LOL.
    To me barb was with hox my favorte class. I tried many different specs and game play and zerker with ATG was always my favorite. Honestly even before this changes barb was strong class and zerker could rack up kills.
    This changes to devastation, buffing decap and eyes of madness jut gave possibility of playing class with nice survivability that have 1 click super burst.
    What i mean by "LOL" is that crits on those two things can be so high to 1 shot clothies from full health. Delred hit my hox for 5k decap and 4k+ atg for instance, and those are not highest figures he did. I was full health btw.
    I just now hit pvp 10 necro in mini for 3k decap and 2.6k ATG non crit with no bufs other than knock and staggering, o and finely honed. Figures like this and higher ones are standard now, and that is lol for 1 click ability on class with good survival. Eyes of madness are so perfect for decap and atg, not that long cd that you cant really count on it in minis. Also with devastation and pot its possible for barb to come to almost 35% crit chance.
    I also saw high lvl barb playing with upheaval+ww AA and decap. So high survival and devastation was still hitting for great dmg.

  5. #55

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    I've been playing my pvp6 barb lately and it has one of the best suvability/burst ratio ingame. Im not even using decap/ATG and the burst with upheaval/butcher9 is very good, the survsbility is also good with atrocity/withoutwarning and with 4 anti cc and AM add to this the damage absortion at 35% and you survive better than bs and still hitting harder than a truck.

    I feel as tanki on my barb as i feel on my pvp10 bs, and bursting ppl down even faster with my barb

    Two days ago I changed pvp style to DW barb with BR stance: Only 6 points in general, full feated atrocity, ww and bs as majors AA and 2 points in AM...oh man try It and you'll never look back to zerk

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    Well if you look at the HoX, he is pvp level 2 with some BB gear and an old-world raid sword. The other team is pvp 10 guard, necro and barb, pvp 9 BS and ranger, and pvp 5 PoM. Shocking? Not sure.

    Also, the presence of the HoX probably explains why the zerker barb went 12/4 in the first video, while he went 5/10 in the second when there was no lowbie on the other team. Again, doesn't look that OP to me.

    Now you may say that this is just an example. But quite frankly, what I see in this thread is very good PvPers complaining that the buff to barb was not needed. But (i) if players like Surgery or you didn't need a buff to barb, that doesn't mean that barb is now OP, and (ii) in any case, I am not sure whether any class should be analysed based on how a player like Surgery or you performs in a random mini context. Fact is that barb can now be very powerful, but there are plenty of barbs who are still not able to pull it off.
    Performing badly with an ATG/decap setup is hard

    I don't think anyone is saying barb is some super OP godmode class though, rather it's just sad how strong decap and atg (both one click abilities) have become. I can live with upheaval or DW barbs being strong because at least they have to land combos.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    Performing badly with an ATG/decap setup is hard

    I don't think anyone is saying barb is some super OP godmode class though, rather it's just sad how strong decap and atg (both one click abilities) have become. I can live with upheaval or DW barbs being strong because at least they have to land combos.
    This is it. If something can preform very good but it takes skill to do so than its fine. Decap and ATG is not something that is hard to land and reward is great.

    http://www.truimagz.com/host/viroku/a/decap%20atg.png

    Here is one pic with pvp t1 gear, I marked there one white hit that did a lot of dmg to with no crit. Now something like this on some clothie and you can also remove his armor is pretty stupid. I almost forgot, add to this finishing blow that can also hit pretty hard.
    Last edited by viroku; 21st November 2014 at 13:42.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    Performing badly with an ATG/decap setup is hard

    I don't think anyone is saying barb is some super OP godmode class though, rather it's just sad how strong decap and atg (both one click abilities) have become. I can live with upheaval or DW barbs being strong because at least they have to land combos.
    But then the solution would be to (re-)adjust Decap and AtG, rather than AM (which this thread was originally about).
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    But then the solution would be to (re-)adjust Decap and AtG, rather than AM (which this thread was originally about).
    The new "super-OP" Decap, used with the aid of Eyes of Madness when available, hits for a little over 2k on average. The "feedback" in this thread is utter crap, and can be reduced to a bunch of players who are saying "I did a few minis on my barb and I rock so much to feel OP so plz nerf, who cares anyway it's not my main class".

    Notice how nobody here is bothering to post actual numbers from actual parses from actual minis (preferably several) hitting actual players, or if they do it's just a single example which of course can be cherry picked.

    If they did, their numbers would look something like this:

    http://postimg.org/image/7w802f74v/

    http://postimg.org/image/6fz74vxzp/

    These are parses from actual pvp minis played on Crom, post patch, with a maxxed out barb in berserker spec (completely full AA trees, pvp level 10, pvp T3 armor, pve T4 weapon, plus the potions you can buy at the armory by converting mini tokens into bori ones).
    As you can see, reality is just a bit different from the ongoing claims. There's a 3.8k crit, indeed, but it's A STATISTICAL OUTLIER, NOT THE AVERAGE.

    Note also how the "amazing" buff of the new Devastation is resulting in an overall crit rate which is LOWER than the basic one (over 23% base crit chance on my barb). A nice amount of good those 5 feat points are doing, isn't it?

    You see now why I get mad at the so-called "feedback" of these so-called pvp pros? And that's without even taking into account how useless feedback on a class is in general if all you're taking into account is your own results, since that is obviously skewed by personal skill and toon power level and as such it's pointless. Proper feedback would also take into account what's happening to THE OTHER PLAYERS using that class. Ever notice how when they ask for nerfs they never mention those pvp level 0-3 barbs going 0-22 in a JS? I wonder why...
    Last edited by MagnusLL; 21st November 2014 at 23:02.

  10. #60

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    I learned that there always will be cry babys. Just look at this threat 4 dudes bitching for entire AOC community. Yes decap hits hard once in blue moon but it's not astronomical numbers. So its OK for assassin to hit for 6k on Toxin or Nercro Chill 6k yet everyone bitches about barbs.
    Last edited by armatur; 22nd November 2014 at 04:47.

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