barbarian speed buff needs revamp

[kalston]

Actually relative to population size there's a good number of decent barbs on Fury these days.

[MagnusLL]

Because no other class minus sin w/ accelerate has such an easy way to disengage if things don't go as planned. They are able to light-speed out of a situation that would kill any other non-heavy class while taking very little to no damage w/ unstoppable. This leads to lazy gameplay which doesn't reward those who play smart and conservative. Zerker barb is an insanely forgivable class with almost no penalties for misjudging a situation. I'm fine with it as an offensive tool but I believe there should be some fix to when it procs or how it procs (I.E currently: barb hits mage with mage shield -> mage shield hits back for 5-10 damage -> barb now has arcane marauder/lightspeed) To me that shouts broken

This is utterly and completely false. As a light armor class with zero bubbles to speak of, barb is actually the one class where you WILL die the moment you misjudge a situation and overextend yourself.

Things that will completely deny AM:

A) root
B) snare
C) knockback
D) fear
E) stun
F) stagger
G) ranged dps

The last two in particular are ubiquitous and can't be avoided by anti-CC capabilities.

Any class with a bubble (i.e. most of them nowadays) have an infinitely better "death avoidance" mechanism, since not only the bubbles give unconditional damage avoidance for their duration, but crucially they don't require the player to stop inflicting damage.

[Edit] Also to shot down once and for all this myth about "berserker barb with Unstoppable is a TANK!!!111ONE!!", let's do some quick calculations:

Unstoppable procs at 35% health
Top-notch barb can reach 10.5k-11k health

That means in best case scenario (11k), Unstoppable would proc at 3850 hp. An additional 30% damage deflection at 3850 hp is the equivalent of 3850.0.3 = 1155 hp of damage which can be absorbed by the barb. So the "unstoppable berserker tank" rises all the way to the impressive total of 12.15k effective hp thanks to Unstoppable, which is still way lower than any tank. I'll give it to you that due to possible interactions with running heals the effect on the Time to Kill is actually stronger than these numbers would suggest, but it's still virtually irrelevant when compared to any actual tank who can have similar level of mitigations constantly up and starting all the way from 15k hp. So, no... Unstoppable doesn't turn the barb into a tank, simply due to the fact that it triggers when the health is already way too low for it to be anything even remotely equivalent to a "real" 50%+ mitigation. Not to mention, of course, the 15 seconds duration with 30 seconds CD on it.

[MagnusLL]

Regularly hitting 4.5+ k on decaps rofl
Had a 4.5 decap and a 4 k atg.

PvP 9 only armour with T4 blunt. 2M2C, Haste, Eyes, T4B, RH.... KABOOM

Troll as **** the Haste specced zerker xD


Hits absurdely high if you getting 2k out of decap you're doing it wrong

That's not a berserker, that's a reaver hybrid build and it's only good for trolling lowbies. And the combined cooldowns on all those abilities means you'd only be able to achieve those numbers once every blue moon. By contrast, my numbers come from the average result of a realistic build over the span of several minis.

Long story short: Decap hits for 2k average. You can achieve 4.5k hits using a troll build in rare circumstances where you're expressly gimping yourself most of the time by not using your CDs to save them and use them all at once when you come in contact with a pvp level zero clothie just so you can come and claim on forums "Decap hits for 4.5k, NERF!", but in actual average pvp game flow the claim is completely false.

[Sarcopthes]

Actually relative to population size there's a good number of decent barbs on Fury these days.

I rarely play so maybe this is why I see same 2-3 faces. However still my post is relevant regardning opness I think

[Usedtissue]

This is utterly and completely false. As a light armor class with zero bubbles to speak of, barb is actually the one class where you WILL die the moment you misjudge a situation and overextend yourself.

Things that will completely deny AM:

A) root
B) snare
C) knockback
D) fear
E) stun
F) stagger
G) ranged dps

The last two in particular are ubiquitous and can't be avoided by anti-CC capabilities.

Any class with a bubble (i.e. most of them nowadays) have an infinitely better "death avoidance" mechanism, since not only the bubbles give unconditional damage avoidance for their duration, but crucially they don't require the player to stop inflicting damage.

Yeah idk I just disagree. Of that whole list, every single one applies to all classes so that point is pretty moot. No doubt bubbles give the classes that have them an advantage but here's the difference: Bubbles both require activation and are on CD's. Up to 5 minutes for some classes like TOS. In an average mini you are able to use it twice/three times tops as opposed to a passive ability that is running 75% of the time in combat.

I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive, I don't think anyone here wants to nerf barb to the ground. I just think Arcane marauder should be looked into as far as changing how it procs and how often it can proc.

Actually relative to population size there's a good number of decent barbs on Fury these days.

Yeah there's some awesome barbs on fury right now. Can make playing a clothie/light a very stressful experience hahaha

[MagnusLL]

Yeah idk I just completely disagree. Of that whole list, every single one applies to all classes so that point is pretty moot. No doubt bubbles give the classes that have them an advantage but here's the difference: Bubbles both require activation and are on CD's. Up to 5 minutes for some classes like TOS. In an average mini you are able to use it twice/three times tops as opposed to a passive ability that is running 75% of the time in combat.

The difference is that almost every other class (certainly everything with medium armor and above) has much better defensive potential meaning they don't instantly become a free kill the moment they can't move anymore.
As for bubbles being on CD, first of all there's at least two classes (Conq and PoMs) which can basically bubble up at will since they'll have one ready in almost every circumstance, and second, while bubbled you aren't simply avoiding damage, you're killing people.
Running away with AM, the enemy is still alive and you're still low on health, so apart from avoiding a death, what exactly have you accomplished? The enemy team will still have gained numerical superiority, and you will still have got no kill.

I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive, I don't think anyone here wants to nerf barb to the ground. I just think Arcane marauder should be looked into as far as changing how it procs and how often it can proc.

For a class with a terrible dps/survivability ratio which also happens to be a melee squishie, nerfing AM means turning it into a free kill. It's as simple as that.

[Usedtissue]

I don't know why were throwing around the term nerf so much. Just answer me this: Do you think AM proccing of a mage shield hit is intended? In your mind is that working as intended?

It is a broken ability, I'm not saying nerf it, I'm saying fix it.

[Kalinin]

barb is an unconventional fighter. It has no real uses. It's dps sucks compared to every other OP class, it's defenses are trash compared to every other class. We only get a 15% evade bubble for like 10 seconds lol (costs 5 points), a conq gets 100% evade bubble. Our lame AA bubble is useless because it makes the barb useless when the double slot perk is put in.


Now the only thing barb has going for it is 3 things.


1: anti cc, which any other rogue has.

2: Haste which is a small speed buff, big cooldown and very short, this is what I use

3: AM, contrary to popular belief AM sucks. barb is such a weak and pathetic class it needs to run out non stop. Having to run out because you are low hp is a tactical disadvantage for your team because you are absent, not helping them etc. That's all it helps with for the barb.

Most barbs you see attack at an angle out of sight out of mind they fight with guerrilla tactics and have to run in and out. The people I see playing barbs mostly now are really good players overall because the class is so hard to get anything done in pvp. It can be replaced easily by a conq as a conq does anything a barb does just 5 times better.

[kalston]

I'm sorry but no, barb isn't squishy. Not with the new pvp gear and not with a zerker spec. Armour and prot are on par with a bear shaman and you get health regen and unstoppable (again, assuming zerker spec). Hp is also pretty high (10k+ is easy even with pvp t1, I see some barbs running around with 12k and still dishing out great damage). It's WAY more tanky than sin, ranger, demo, necro, hox, tos...

If you want squishy melee, try sin. Yea they have better burst and some awesome tools but they are also so ridiculously easy to kill with a melee class (such as barb) or a ranger, it's not even funny. Their speedbuff has a long CD too so it's not comparable to barb's.

And I don't even play sin (I have but not much as I don't find it enjoyable, I prefer a class like bs or barb where you can stay in combat really long and have no cooldowns to worry about) but I do play barb, a lot in fact.

And Conq may seem like a better barb - and as far as Carnage is concerned I tend to agree as it is pretty simple and powerful and highly mobile - but brute is slow and has been nerfed a lot, I wouldn't call it OP nowadays. Of course it's not bad but burst and mobility are actually pretty crap. I'd rather play a zerker barb and slip out of every CC putting constant pressure and breaking LOS in the blink of an eye when needed. Carnie conq is scary in the right hands but also controllable and their (physical only btw) bubble is very underwhelming (hit rating is very high with pvp gear), play one if you don't believe me.

You know what's funny? Since frenzy magic damage nerf my barb is WAY easier to play than my pvp 10 guard, even with old school tempest/general spec. I get more kills and don't die that much more. Self healing, reliable anti CCs (buttons rather than x% chance) & a quasi permanent speedbuff are the reason why. That's why I'm playing it a lot lately, it's easy and forgiving, great when I'm back from work and tired and want an easy ride. Not as bad as bloody vengeance guard was (or even just tempest guard before frenzy nerf), but it's not that far from it

[Surgery]

most of nowadays barb are pretty much useless, there are only a few really good ones (prolly we would name same ppl so no point) but none are really owning everyone, and havent seen one being gamechanger in premades like good tanks can be what is the most important OPness factor. Personally many times I have been topping kills in premades in the past when being more active but it was when we were owning other team or in balanced games, when we were owned I couldnt shine, I was pretty much farmed, while tanks were the ones (and good teamplay would be the biggest factor obviously) carrying team on their back for most of the time (talking about last 2 years of aoc now only)
SO barb OPNess is kinda overrated imo , taking away AM from barb is just going to make class boring, especially keeping in mind that most of decent barbs use AM not to escape only but too attack, dont agree?

Soz but I was owning everything on my fking barb xD 99% time I was on 89% base weapon dps spec +36% reverse swing (non decap spec) and there was nothing you couldn't own. Nothing.

The changes they did meant my barb was doing same kills as my sin but without the deaths.

The changes to barb weren't really necessary imo. They went from a class that had decent dps and decent survival which meant overall it was very rewarding to play it right.

Also yes to the other guys a barb can flee... that is part of playing as a rogue. Rogues are literally built to play dirty and cunning with speed and precision. That IS the whole point.

And yes if you see your team is low on burst dps classes then rather than going into reaver spec to compensate I would always take a decap+atg+haste burst dps spec. With high as sh!t burst and still have unstoppable.