24 Player Raiding: A Relic of the past?

[sugarspice]

Been saying for a while there only needs to be 1 US guild, with raids based on time zones (east coast and west coast raid times) and with weekend raids as well.

All tiers of raiding would be covered in this setup, from T1 raids to T5 progression raiding, and everything in between.

But everyone wants to be the leader of their own little guild and the vicious pug cycle continues.

I respectfully disagree, people get to choose if they like the guild, management, fairness in getting in raids and loot rules, its not one size fits all.

[Valicard]

WE have no problem filling our t4 raids, we have no desire to merge our guild with anyone elses guild, but would help folks If they need help.

Yes, like sipping tea singing "well, I'AM OK who cares about the rest." as Rome burns around them.

If you're doing OK then don't merge but for the rest, having separate guilds is killing the game. Most of these guild people intentionally not join a global raid thinking "well, I'm holding out until this Friday for my guild raid." which fails to happen. The game's extremely limited population just can't indulge all these (wonderful I'm sure) guilds. It's a reality check.

[sugarspice]

Yes, like sipping tea singing "well, I'AM OK who cares about the rest." as Rome burns around them.

If you're doing OK then don't merge but for the rest, having separate guilds is killing the game. Most of these guild people intentionally not join a global raid thinking "well, I'm holding out until this Friday for my guild raid." which fails to happen. The game's extremely limited population just can't indulge all these (wonderful I'm sure) guilds. It's a reality check.

That is not what I said, I have offered to help guild leaders learn t4. to help run pug t4, but I would quit the game before joining a guild where the leader was unfair to people and didn't allow raid access to weaker players. To be blunt, no way in hell do I agree with your post. Leaving people out has caused more people to leave the game than anything else. Not everyone is a great player with great gear, but everyone in guild should be given equal rights and access to full t4 clear each week. Under a full us global merge that's not possible, so only the chosen few would get to go.

[Wulfgaarr]

perhaps you could try create something similer to crom pugs http://crompugs.guildlaunch.com/

its a raiding force that has raiders from many different guilds it raids during eu time and has a website where anyone can join the site and apply for a raiding spot and then sign up for raids whenever he/she feels like it,they have a t4 raid every week and clear it

it seems like the kind of thing you guys are talking about,perhaps a US version of that would be what you're looking for if you got organised I'm sure it would be something you could make happen

The only problem with that is the lack of a sponsor guild/raidleaders interested in creating a that kind if environment. It takes time and effort to set up a website, recruit officers, comm server and and most important, develop and train a raid force. T3 can still be pugged with some success. Primmadonna and RA do that some times bit they are selective on who gets in, thus they are usually successful. Anything beyond T3 simply isnt in "puggable" state and require some level of commitment from raiders that have deep knowledge on their preferred class, game mechanics and necessary gear. I still see the random memory cloud advertisement but its far less frequent than what it used to be pre loot change for obvious reasons.

Sadly the majority of US playerbase left arent interested in progressing and learning anything past T2. The few that are willing usually end up seeking a spot in the last 2-3 guilds that can offer T4 regularly or they just quit game and dont come back.

[Valicard]

That is not what I said, I have offered to help guild leaders learn t4. to help run pug t4, but I would quit the game before joining a guild where the leader was unfair to people and didn't allow raid access to weaker players. To be blunt, no way in hell do I agree with your post. Leaving people out has caused more people to leave the game than anything else. Not everyone is a great player with great gear, but everyone in guild should be given equal rights and access to full t4 clear each week. Under a full us global merge that's not possible, so only the chosen few would get to go.

But that's how it is now. Only a chosen few get to play in T4 much less T5. If a u.s. player takes 6 months levels his toon up to 80 and gears himself up properly to Khitai/T3(with token exchanges this is now possible) and wants to progress, he/she can't. Effectively, for the vast majority of U.S. players the "level cap" is at K6/T3. It's just not possible and/or excrutiatingly time consuming and painful to progress any further then this. ... But, you know. Who cares? As long as you're having fun right?

[cins]

Raiding is an immensely stupid and outdated idea and needs to be exterminated with chemical weapons. The whole pile of bullshit you need to wade through to even form a 24 player raid isn't worth whatever pointless pixels you'll get from it.

The more is NOT the merrier on the internet. Why do I have to waste my time waiting hours for that perfect tank to magically appear before I can have me some fun? Why do I have to repeat the same bossfight over and over and over until that guy over there finally figures out how to do his part, only to keep wasting more of my effort because this other guy is now failing at this other task, which will repeat for 15 more people afterwards? I'm not even mentioning how much more shitty my experience will be if that guy who keeps failing is me.
And what exactly is my reward for wading through this mountain of unfun bitchwork? Satisfaction of defeating a challenge that I repeated fourteen billion times while waiting for 20 other people to figure out? A bunch of pink pixels that have +3 to the imaginary numbers on them? **** that, playing solitaire will give me more fun per minute.
...
An entirely different issue is that the amount of player happiness any new higher tier raiding content will create is so low, it's an utter waste of manpower for FC to make them. There'll be like 3 people tops who'll enjoy it (because it's so damn implausible to get a strong raidforce going) and they'll farm it a few months till they go blind, then the fun will have worn off and they'll be sick of it and whining for more will start, while whatever hundreds of other players who're still playing won't ever set foot in the place. We're already aware the glacial pace FC makes new content at, making it something less than 1% of players will even see, let alone complete, is idiocy.
...
And no; training people, organized pugging, merging guilds or whatever other solutions you're thinking of for "fixing" the raiding issue will not work. Because the whole thing is a turd and you're just trying to polish it. You can't cure cancer with bandaids. This game doesn't have enough population and FC doesn't have enough manpower to sustain 24 player difficult pve content as endgame.

[sugarspice]

[QUOTE=Valicard;2113658]But that's how it is now. Only a chosen few get to play in T4 much less T5. If a u.s. player takes 6 months levels his toon up to 80 and gears himself up properly to Khitai/T3(with token exchanges this is now possible) and wants to progress he/she can't. Effectively, for the vast majority of U.S. players the "level cap" is at K6/T3. It's just not possible and/or excrutiatingly time
consuming/ painful to progress any further then this. ... But, you know. Who cares? As long as you're having fun right?[/QUOTE

How does this merge your talking about help you get into a raid? You sign up on website and just go kill t4? If you think that you can take the first 24 signed up and kill t4 then you have never done it. It takes good leadership and logistics and folks knowing their raid roles. Its much easier for a small guild environment to work one or two new folks into the mix and train them. Training a PUG is progression raiding, which takes a lot of time patience and skill. But I wish you luck on your endeavor, just count me out of any guild merge.
Now if you want help, training or a pug raid then that's different and our guild will help in any way to make the game succeed.

[Dearg]

.....

There are many problems with this game but raiding isn`t one of them. It is the best part of the game as it is now and raiding is the only thing that keeps people still logging & playing once they are bored of all other content.
Frankly I don`t know why are you so concerned about higher tier raids, Combat/ringofset, you still have a lot to learn in T1 and BRC before you move on to higher tier raids..

[lmagowz]

People, just step forward, forget about past and merge 2-3 guilds into one. Or join EU guild.

[DiscoCommando]

Go to better guild
Or
Make ally with orther guild

Stop QQing

EoT