End pug-only minis now and forever!

[Okkie]

You guys are really delusional.

How many new players do you guys see stay and play? 99% of them you see for 2 weeks and by the end of that you wont see them again, I guarantee you. They get targeted ASAP in pug mini games, guess who gets pad farmed in pug mini the most? New players. Guess who dies 17+ times on a winning team? New players. Guess who hates pvp in this game right now? New players. They are leaving in masses.

It doesn't matter what % winning chance PUG mini offers, new players gets the worse end of the stick regardless. Also the 50/50 Pug win is not true. That is only true if everyone is 100% equal in skill/gear/AA/classes are balanced. Right now its 90% bad/new players, 10% decent/good players. The pug win/loose chance is purely luck based, I had time where 3 hours of pug mini all got pure farmed and lost. This is happening more often.

Pug mini also brings the AFKers, it is getting worse and worse. Vote kick isn't an option as you said the population dose not support it. Why are they going afk? well they have no incentives to play, they only play for tokens and if they see no chance of getting that token they will not play. PVP became meaningless in mini games. These players kept thinking as long as they avoid pvp get that token so they can be pvp 7+ they'd be able to compete.
Guess what? News flash they wont do any better than they did before. If they sucked, they will still suck. Its like saying, hey I don't know how to play soccer, I can run but I don't know teamwork or soccer in general, but let me wait a year and buy new soccer gear I bet that will make me good at soccer. See how ridiculous that sounds? Reality is, if you are bad you will remain bad no matter the gear/level. That is why its so crucial to learn the basics and fundamentals of pvp and group pvp early on. How did you think the good players started? Not just in video games, in sports in real life in general, they faced challenges and confronted them instead of avoiding it, thus they got better at the game.

Another thing I don't understand is why do you all kept on saying "pug stomp" What do you call the matches in every other mmo or online games that ends in a better team slaughtering the other? Do they just force them all to split up? In games like Battlefied and Counter strike, matches ends in farming and or even worse than pad farms in aoc. Man up

Why do you guys have this mentality that we are the only guild on the server that will sign up with 6 BEST possible PLAYERS every single minute of the hour/ 24 hours a day/ 7 days a week. NEWS FLASH not all of us even play at the same time.
What happened to other guilds? Are there no one out there that has guildies, friends or groups that can sign up?
You know back in 2009, we had to make premade groups with random people to sign up, we had team barbs, team hox, team tos etc whatever it is we had fun. We'd even beat the premades too with our pug premade team. That's the joy you get for a challenge.

So what im saying is, allowing 1-2 players to sign up together could benefit everyone. No longer can people just sit afk and expect team to do all the work, no longer can people expected to be carried 24/7 no longer can people just tunnel vision on either kd whore or objectives. People would have to play as a team now to win. New players would greatly benefit too, because they could team up with good players to sign up and have a much better chance at pvp and winning. The new players would actually have chance and the incentives to get better at pvp. On top of that funcom will get tons of veterans coming back to the game.

Stop looking at negative side of things and see what positive things it can bring.

[Unutterable]

I don't see much resistance to the 0-3 partial premade idea. Playing with your friends is a big part of mmos.

The resistance seems to be to the OP's suggestion that full 6 member teams be allowed to compete against 6 member pugs.

[kalston]

I don't agree on all points but everyone is entitled to their views

That was a good read, mostly spot on I would say. I'm sure Vali would agree with most of it as well

Either way the game has changed a lot and the population declined in both number and quality (I mean we had a lot more competitive players and guilds before, although to be honest watching old pvp vids you can tell that the OVERALL skill level was NOT really better than now lol). The game is what it is and we know very well we're not going back to 1.04 or anything, it's just gonna be a small patch here and there. I wish for more but it's just not gonna happen. The game is very depressing for me atm. I'm having a blast on Wildstar (minis/arenas, open world and even the pve is actually fantastic and skill based) but I still long for AoC's lore and melee combat.

[mrcorp]

You guys are really delusional.

How many new players do you guys see stay and play? 99% of them you see for 2 weeks and by the end of that you wont see them again, I guarantee you. They get targeted ASAP in pug mini games, guess who gets pad farmed in pug mini the most? New players. Guess who dies 17+ times on a winning team? New players. Guess who hates pvp in this game right now? New players. They are leaving in masses.

It doesn't matter what % winning chance PUG mini offers, new players gets the worse end of the stick regardless. Also the 50/50 Pug win is not true. That is only true if everyone is 100% equal in skill/gear/AA/classes are balanced. Right now its 90% bad/new players, 10% decent/good players. The pug win/loose chance is purely luck based, I had time where 3 hours of pug mini all got pure farmed and lost. This is happening more often.

Pug mini also brings the AFKers, it is getting worse and worse. Vote kick isn't an option as you said the population dose not support it. Why are they going afk? well they have no incentives to play, they only play for tokens and if they see no chance of getting that token they will not play. PVP became meaningless in mini games. These players kept thinking as long as they avoid pvp get that token so they can be pvp 7+ they'd be able to compete.
Guess what? News flash they wont do any better than they did before. If they sucked, they will still suck. Its like saying, hey I don't know how to play soccer, I can run but I don't know teamwork or soccer in general, but let me wait a year and buy new soccer gear I bet that will make me good at soccer. See how ridiculous that sounds? Reality is, if you are bad you will remain bad no matter the gear/level. That is why its so crucial to learn the basics and fundamentals of pvp and group pvp early on. How did you think the good players started? Not just in video games, in sports in real life in general, they faced challenges and confronted them instead of avoiding it, thus they got better at the game.

Another thing I don't understand is why do you all kept on saying "pug stomp" What do you call the matches in every other mmo or online games that ends in a better team slaughtering the other? Do they just force them all to split up? In games like Battlefied and Counter strike, matches ends in farming and or even worse than pad farms in aoc. Man up

Why do you guys have this mentality that we are the only guild on the server that will sign up with 6 BEST possible PLAYERS every single minute of the hour/ 24 hours a day/ 7 days a week. NEWS FLASH not all of us even play at the same time.
What happened to other guilds? Are there no one out there that has guildies, friends or groups that can sign up?
You know back in 2009, we had to make premade groups with random people to sign up, we had team barbs, team hox, team tos etc whatever it is we had fun. We'd even beat the premades too with our pug premade team. That's the joy you get for a challenge.

So what im saying is, allowing 1-2 players to sign up together could benefit everyone. No longer can people just sit afk and expect team to do all the work, no longer can people expected to be carried 24/7 no longer can people just tunnel vision on either kd whore or objectives. People would have to play as a team now to win. New players would greatly benefit too, because they could team up with good players to sign up and have a much better chance at pvp and winning. The new players would actually have chance and the incentives to get better at pvp. On top of that funcom will get tons of veterans coming back to the game.

Stop looking at negative side of things and see what positive things it can bring.

Good post. However, I don't see how allowing someone to group up with 2 friends is going to help. It's only going to ensure you are on the winning team every time. The population does not support this. I can see your guild having 2 groups signing up, and always ending up together. Honestly speaking, if I saw that, I would probably stop playing mini games. And that would mean I would stop playing, and that would be another lost player. Hope that makes sense...

[-Syd-]

We all know why we're stuck with pug-only mini games, we all know why this is happening, it's because PvEers wanted an easy way to farm for tokens and prowess points.

The two communities used to be kind of separate with separate mentalities, PvPers would do minis and some PvE for gear and they were mostly competitive players who wanted to play for fun. and PvEers would do noting but PvE and talk sh1t about PvP, they were mostly grinders and farmers who only played the game only to get the best possible gear and to max their characters out.
As soon as Funcom added tokens and prowess points to minis, and people saw that you could earn new gear and AAs from minis, PvEers started to flood into minis and soon found themselves being farmed by organized groups of players.

However, PvEers are not interested in competition, they didn't want to PvP at all, they only wanted the tokens and prowess and didn't care how they got them. So all the PvEers started to complain about grouping in minis so Funcom would change it, and they got what they wanted: Pure, pug-only minis that they can now farm, grind and abuse to their hearts content for as many shiny tokens and as much prowess points as they wanted. And all the PvPers got fed up with that system and quit the game.

Why is it that the opinions of people who don't actually care about PvP the only opinions that matter to Funcom on the topic of PvP? What about the PvPers? don't we matter at all? Why do PvEers think that they have more of a right to play this game then everyone else?

It's strange.

[-Syd-]

Good post. However, I don't see how allowing someone to group up with 2 friends is going to help. It's only going to ensure you are on the winning team every time. The population does not support this. I can see your guild having 2 groups signing up, and always ending up together. Honestly speaking, if I saw that, I would probably stop playing mini games. And that would mean I would stop playing, and that would be another lost player. Hope that makes sense...

Getting on bad team after bad team after bad team is discouraging to me, and makes me not want to play.

[Freke]

We all know why we're stuck with pug-only mini games, we all know why this is happening, it's because PvEers wanted an easy way to farm for tokens and prowess points.

The two communities used to be kind of separate with separate mentalities, PvPers would do minis and some PvE for gear and they were mostly competitive players who wanted to play for fun. and PvEers would do noting but PvE and talk sh1t about PvP, they were mostly grinders and farmers who only played the game only to get the best possible gear and to max their characters out.
As soon as Funcom added tokens and prowess points to minis, and people saw that you could earn new gear and AAs from minis, PvEers started to flood into minis and soon found themselves being farmed by organized groups of players.

However, PvEers are not interested in competition, they didn't want to PvP at all, they only wanted the tokens and prowess and didn't care how they got them. So all the PvEers started to complain about grouping in minis so Funcom would change it, and they got what they wanted: Pure, pug-only minis that they can now farm, grind and abuse to their hearts content for as many shiny tokens and as much prowess points as they wanted. And all the PvPers got fed up with that system and quit the game.

Why is it that the opinions of people who don't actually care about PvP the only opinions that matter to Funcom on the topic of PvP? What about the PvPers? don't we matter at all? Why do PvEers think that they have more of a right to play this game then everyone else?

It's strange.

You are so black and white its not even funny. The terms pve'er and pvp'er isnt mutually exclusive. There are hardcore pvp'ers and very casual pvp'ers and everything inbetween. Same with pve'ers. A large percentage do both pvp and pve in various degrees. In fact hardcore pvp'ers are in a minority in the pool of pvp'ers, so you're not speaking for that many.
You think because you are good at an aspect of the game your opinion matters more than anyone elses. It does not. And the way in which you and your like convey your message is so immature and condescending I doubt any developer would take you seriuosly.

[Loaf-of-Evil]

You guys are really delusional.

How many new players do you guys see stay and play? 99% of them you see for 2 weeks and by the end of that you wont see them again, I guarantee you. They get targeted ASAP in pug mini games, guess who gets pad farmed in pug mini the most? New players. Guess who dies 17+ times on a winning team? New players. Guess who hates pvp in this game right now? New players. They are leaving in masses.

Exactly, there is not enough pop for what y'all are wanting. You just explained why the premade only, AND the pvp 0-4 and 5-10 idea will not work. No pop.

You can do premade vs premade now, so why don't you? That was rhetorical, not enough people.

You, Carnage(asylum), can not even get 12 people to do your own premade, and neither can any other guild on fury in US evenings.

If minis went premade only, then the very small amount of pvp you have now, would be gone. There is just no pop for it anymore.

The most important part of the pvp update, the feat fixes, has still not happened, and the small pop that came back for the pvp update was frustrated beyond belief with op soldiers, tts, hide and sw necros, etc.

If you can figure out a way to get the feat fixes done, and boost the pop, your ideas or premade only, etc, might be good, but untl then, please stop the forum qq.

Your qq is very discouraging for all the casual peple that do not have 5+ game friends that get on at the same time every day as they do. So many old guilds with only a player or two that does not want to give up what they worked years for, or new people that don't like the juvenile trash talking of self procaimed baddies, etc...

[kalston]

You are so black and white its not even funny. The terms pve'er and pvp'er isnt mutually exclusive. There are hardcore pvp'ers and very casual pvp'ers and everything inbetween. Same with pve'ers. A large percentage do both pvp and pve in various degrees. In fact hardcore pvp'ers are in a minority in the pool of pvp'ers, so you're not speaking for that many.
You think because you are good at an aspect of the game your opinion matters more than anyone elses. It does not. And the way in which you and your like convey your message is so immature and condescending I doubt any developer would take you seriuosly.

What is this, someone making perfect sense!

[Wheya]

Getting on bad team after bad team after bad team is discouraging to me, and makes me not want to play.

In 90% of all matches I can tell which side will win before the match even has started just by looking at the people in both teams. This is bad.

Neither premade vs PUG will improve this ratio nor premade vs premade. Premades soon will find out against which team they won't have a chance. Congratulation we have a winner. GAME OVER

Just to clarify: no more minis is worse than bad minis

Funcom could try to improve the matchmaker. For this we would need something like a ranking system because pvp level and even kd ratio doesn't tell the quality of a player. Such improvements would have a limit which would not satisfy what we are looking for. Everybody who ever tried to form 2 equally strong teams f.e. in guild intern matches knows it is next to impossible.



There should be a way to reward people fighting hard even (especially) in a bad/loosing team and a way to punish people who stay in hide and only pop out of stealth if they get an easy frag or be in a vastly superior team.

I wrote a

Holy wall of text, Batman...

to describe such a system.