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Thread: who wants to marry me?

  1. #21

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    @Wheya - lot of text. It will take days to read it .

    First post. In my opinion this system isn't good. Two reasons:

    1. So much stats and calculations need to be done means less performance.

    2. Mine reason - Your stats are not corresponding with minigame targets. In mini it doesn’t matter how many times you will die (example fighting alone conqueror against 4oponnents on wrangling george are very usefull player) or how much damage you will add (“healer dps” all his teammates dying like pets and he nukes from distance) ect.

    There are lot better simple ways how to calculate it with good performance. Example - CTS or JS
    - DPS only matter how much time player is near the flag or eventually for range DPS how much time he is damaging.
    - Healers important is how much time he is near the flag
    - Tanks important is how much time he is carrying the flag or is near the flag when other tank carrying it. If tanks not carrying it they will have negative rating (summary they can got 0Xp on the end when they are useless for team).
    When I'm writing flag I mean doesn't metter enemy carrier, alies carrier or just defending flag on ground.
    Last edited by Resurector; 5th June 2014 at 13:04.

  2. #22

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    Resurector, thank you for your input. Regarding your first concern it would cause performance issues I have to disagree. The vast majority of data is already stored today during the match otherwise there would be no way to determine who made the most damage to get the kill credit. Think about this system I propose as something like a logfile parser that is used at the end of a match. Basicly it is the same as a logfile parser most people are using while doing raids.



    To answer your second concern: actually my reason behind stats, the ranking system based on this stats and last but not least the HANDYCAP modifier are all because I want to encourage and reward a teamplay orientated gameplay instead of a selfish and often coward kd orientated gameplay. So either there are mistakes in my concept or I was unable to explain it.

    So let me explain how I see the situation you have described: a conq fighting vs 4 opponents on wrangling george. Before I start let me quote myself:
    "Deaths: how many times you've died. This number has a great negative impact on your efficiency rating to prevent brainless suicide pushing just to get a maximum rating from the damage you've done and the damage you've received."

    Yes, I do believe dieing should have a penalty. However it can be rewarding to die as long as you hurt your enemy a lot more than he / they are hurting you. In this example of wrangling george I hope the conq is a skilled one who knows how much risk he can take. There are 3 possibilities for this conq. 1.) he defeats all 4 enemies. 2.) he fights for a while, keeps his enemies busy for some time, maybe he kills one or 2 and in the end he escapes with the help of a bubble. 3.) he dies.

    For the third case he either made and took enough damage to overcome the death penalty or he might be not so skilled and just died without doing any great harm to his enemies. This very last example I would describe as brainless suicide pushing. Please check my AVG_DMG_REC stat. I was actually thinking about such a situation you described. Please also keep in mind that I have not said the death penalty should take away 100% rating or 10% rating or any other specific number. All I said was 'great negative impact' but not how great. This is a matter for balancing the efficiency ranking formula. And as I also already said this ranking formula could and most likely will get altered over time.




    DPS only matter how much time player is near the flag or eventually for range DPS how much time he is damaging
    I like the thinking that is behind this idea. I actually believe we both have a very similar goal. However your idea would be more instead of less performance consuming because you actually have to insert the coordinates or the distance to the flag. This however has to be done in real time. Basicly for every damage hit you would need to check the distance to a flag. Is this idea really useful? Can you answer this question: is it more valuable to fight and kill an opponent 2m away from a flag or is it better to not even allow him getting near the flag?


    Tanks important is how much time he is carrying the flag or is near the flag when other tank carrying it. If tanks not carrying it they will have negative rating (summary they can got 0Xp on the end when they are useless for team
    Again I believe we both want the same thing. You might want to check the SKULL_DELIVER and SKULL_DEATH stats. I know most people think it should always be the tank that should take flag. I however do believe, and I know I am here a minority, that sometimes it is better if f.e. a ranger takes the skull while the tank is pushing hard at the frontline. Sometimes a assa with speedbuff can ninja the flag. Should a tank now get a penalty? In your example with 2 tanks it usually is better if the second tank who is not carrying the flag does NOT stand right beside the carrier but instead that he fights the ranged classes to stop them attacking the carrier from range.

    Regarding your concern about healers nuking dps (from range) instead of healing team members you might want to reread what I wrote about AVG_HEAL.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheya View Post
    to encourage and reward a teamplay orientated gameplay instead of a selfish and often coward kd orientated gameplay
    Agree 100% that somethink has to be done to play as a team not solo hunting for the weakest players.
    About performance probably you right but looking into deeply it looks like it shoud have no real impact both situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheya View Post
    as long as you hurt your enemy a lot more than he / they are hurting you.
    It's impossible to give more damage by tank against 3 or more players because three guys are hitting you not one and they have 3 times bigger dps and lot more ccs. What's wrong in dying for the flag? Because of dying you will be less near the flag I think it's enough of decreasing rating.
    I don't feel is it good idea that amount of heal dps should be in this rating. Obviously higher pvp players or better geared have higher values and that way they will advance faster even they are playing as good as others. Better idea is to calculate time doing damage or healing. By the way when I was talking about near the flag I mean some aobout circle 40meters. K/D ratio is worst thing that can exist. Because of that statistic people are hideing or escaping at vital point of battle. It's very good that this statistic only you can see. About carrying the flag by not tank sometimes you right but there are ot more situations that tank should take it. There is easy solution if the team won tanks will not get negative ratting. In my opinion if you want that FC will make some changes this changes should be more consistent and easy to balance. By the way sadly this discusion will be red by you and me and few more players and nothing will change.
    Last edited by Resurector; 9th June 2014 at 09:25.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheya View Post
    Stats
    AVG_DMG: your average damage per second. This number will have a huge impact on your efficiency rating
    Just skimmed over your post and I think the ideas you have are mostly good and would be very nice if they were ever considered by Funcom. Nothing wrong with daydreaming a bit and hoping Funcom miraculously comes into a shitton of money to make some of them real.

    If I knew it was not a pointless exercise I would read your whole post thoroughly and try to improve it as much as possible so we could see it some day. now, meh.

    The above one stands out and is wrong if you ask me because it highly favours necroes. A decent necro will have multiple targets dotted at all times preferably with more then 1 dot. Even tho these dots are not too hard to counter with a decent healer their ER will skyrocket and promoting their lame gameplay of dotting and running. 1 ftw of 40 ticks (it ticks every second?) around 250 per tick is 10k damage just from casting one half second spell. That will give a nice boost to your ER.

  5. #25

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    @Resurector
    Agree 100% that somethink has to be done to play as a team not solo hunting for the weakest players.
    Focussing those with worst armor (clothies) usually is better than focussing a tank. Trying to kill the t4 demo who can't move is a better idea than trying to kill the skilled t4 demo. Both do same dmg if they can stand still but one of them is weaker than the other when under attack. A whole team fighting the tank and ignoring the demos etc is worst case. You have to kill the easiest targets first and then those which are hard to kill.


    It's impossible to give more damage by tank against 3 or more players because three guys are hitting you not one and they have 3 times bigger dps and lot more ccs. What's wrong in dying for the flag?
    I think a system that rewards stupid suicide behaviour is a bad system. If you can not handle your enemy because they badly outnumber you then it is probably a better idea to check if there is a better location to fight. We are still at our example in JS wrangling george? If that (bad) conq is dieing they will cap. If (bad) conq returns they will hold the cap and kill him again. If (good) conq can handle them then he will get rewarded because he is doing damage and because he is taking damage even if he might have to run after some time. If bad conq just runs from rezzpad to die again and again without doing any significant damage to enemies -> no reward for that.

    I don't feel is it good idea that amount of heal dps should be in this rating. Obviously higher pvp players or better geared have higher values and that way they will advance faster even they are playing as good as others. Better idea is to calculate time doing damage or healing.
    Healing should get rewarded and it is the average healing (and damage) over an entire match that will get checked. Of course better geared players, players with more aa and most important players with more skill will get a higher efficiency rating. That is one major reason of this rating!
    A pvp 10 player who is most time in hide because he is waiting for the one easy and safe frag however won't get a high rating. That is another major reason for this rating. No more safe play just for kd. Agressive but not suicidal behaviour gets rewarded.
    Players with good rating advance only slightly faster than players with bad rating. Check what I've written under "XP" in my 4th post. I wouldn't have touched XP but I do think that a player who is the entire match in hide shouldn't get a reward as it currently is. That's the reason why XP is linked to efficiency rating.



    K/D ratio is worst thing that can exist. Because of that statistic people are hideing or escaping at vital point of battle.
    It's very good that this statistic only you can see.

    KD ratio by itself is not a bad stat at all. The problem is that it is way too easy to manipulate, aka kd whoring. Btw. you might have noticed that getting kill credits means nothing in my version. What matters is how much damage (+ all the other stats like healing) you do over the entire match.

    To give you an idea how it could look like:
    http://www.noobmeter.com/


    @Caudilloo
    The above one stands out and is wrong if you ask me because it highly favours necroes.
    No, it doesn't because necros will only get compared to necros. It's all there hidden in my wall of text. Comparing different classes with each other would be way too complex and never will get any kind of 'fair' results.

    If a player plays an easy faceroll class then I expect most players of this easy class get an efficiency rating close to the average 1000. A difficult class to play will have a much higher diversity and it could become very rewarding not to play a faceroll class if you are a good player.

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