New Crafting System ::still not here::

[Texan615]

I don't agree. If they give the option to change the model/visual of item you craft and if they balance correctly the "amount of material needed/Power of the item" ratio, the craft could be a formidable time-sink for many players, that actually target a broader public than a T5 raid.

Let's be clear : New raid is awesome, but a T5 will only profit a fraction of the PVE player base (fraction that deserve new content since they are veteran and that they have nothing else to do anymore, I agree, but that's not the point); while craft can be a profit for everybody, from PVP player to PVE players. From noob to vetaran. From vanity-whore to stat-whore.

Crafting revamp will bring very few players back.

T5 raids/Pvp content will bring lots of players back.

[Kurt2013]

You forget the "will keep players ingame" factor, which is higher with crafting (if done right) and probably underestimate it as system factor.
Also it is a longterm investment, while more tiers will be one more step in the vicious power circle (though this seems the current mmo way of pve).
And both have risks...crafting can be a big mess, if they mess up the "if"s Jaedelyia mentioned. Still being able to have more enchantment and customizing options and combinations than now with existing gems would be nice and lessen the dependance on pregenerated content. Also if you could change existing items, it would be better (but no word from them about it, so i doubt it).
If they would make it too crit based (or even based on chars crit rating), this would be foolish too. But some luck, grind and charbased skill factors are ok.

[Texan615]

You forget the "will keep players ingame" factor, which is higher with crafting (if done right) and probably underestimate it as system factor.
Also it is a longterm investment, while more tiers will be one more step in the vicious power circle (though this seems the current mmo way of pve).
And both have risks...crafting can be a big mess, if they mess up the "if"s Jaedelyia mentioned. Still being able to have more enchantment and customizing options and combinations than now with existing gems would be nice and lessen the dependance on pregenerated content. Also if you could change existing items, it would be better (but no word from them about it, so i doubt it).
If they would make it too crit based (or even based on chars crit rating), this would be foolish too. But some luck, grind and charbased skill factors are ok.

I don't agree with your logic about "keeping people in game".

Right now, this game is more or less populated with diehards that won't leave no matter what.

As for getting new and old players to play again due to a crafting revamp, I honestly don't see much of an impact.

Now getting new and old players back due to pvp/pve content, I would expect to see a much larger influx.

[Oduda]

if crafting revamp is the most important update, you have been playing the wrong game friend. it might be hot for some time but no, it won't be the most important thing.

Raid tier 5 is the most important update in the near future. Pvp is a lost cause.. too little too late. Raiding is what keep those subscriptions coming since pvp is free, which is absurd.

crafting revamp is like opening a window after someone farts in the car. just a momentary relief.

Couldn't care less about T5 raids. Craft Revamp is the only update I am waiting for.

[Bibik]

Both are developped in the same time so i don't really understand why there's fighting about which one should come first.
At this point, anything new is welcomed for this game. Anything.

[Dearg]

We know very little about new crafting system but I think that final stats on crafted item are determined by combination of three gems (or maybe new AAs add more than 3?) and those gems could be scattered across the game, so gems that add the most desirable effects (or books that add better looking or exotic skins) could be in rarely visited dungeons like the breach hard mode or Imirian ravine for example-this will give people reason to go to old/deserted places and breathe new life to the game. This kind of crafting system I would love to see a soon as possible.
T5 raid is extremely important and needed but I think FC will try to scam us and they will either add absolutely minimal vertical progression or they will come up with some lame solution which won`t affect negatively their precious PvP.

[Kurt2013]

I don't agree with your logic about "keeping people in game".

Right now, this game is more or less populated with diehards that won't leave no matter what.

As for getting new and old players to play again due to a crafting revamp, I honestly don't see much of an impact.

Now getting new and old players back due to pvp/pve content, I would expect to see a much larger influx.

The same logic applies to new pve tiers. New players will have to close the gap and not all (actually the minority i hope) wants to hurry and rush through content they pay for.
I know from players i talked to what might bring them back and usually you have a certain percentage of collectors, explorers and crafters in every MMO. They do not do this exclusively and you find them amongst rpers, pvpers and pvers of all tiers. And the whole economy and also the t4+ raid people, pvp etc. can profit from a working crafting system.
But again, if not done right, it will similarly affect all aspects negatively.

I do agree with you, if the added pve/pvp content would not be put on top tiers. Of course, if you expect vets to return or stay, you will have to do this, but not exclusively.
That's why i am a bit puzzled, that it looks like with a small team and so much pregenerated content already (a lot of which is rarely used), they still go for the same formula of high development and testing circle, without offering something scaling and things with more random elements to give people something else to do for a change. It is per definition problematic, if you lure people to instances mostly through loot tiers. A positive example is House of Crom. You had new unique loot (unique does not have to mean more powerful than everything else) that had some strengths and was keeping to local lore and also offered rare tokens as general grind reward and also included a new story and quests.

[Mellaus]

I for one pretty much gave up on the crafting revamp, which i believe too was the one thing to make AoC better at many levels.

T5 raid won't change anything, since no new player will ever see it, nor t3.5 nor t4.
Basically it's pretty conclusive now that almost no new player makes it to the end game, they stop way before they even have a shot at it.

That crafting revamp the way it was described would have allowed players to take that old gear with useless stats more relevant, to rebalance stats on items with bad distribution, like the t1/2/3 demo and pom staff for instance, or the t1/2/3 dt set.
All those items are wasted spots in the loot table, they serve no purpose, no one would use them.

So the crafting revamp would have given every single player a new tool to play with and a way to make old gear relevant without FC having to revamp it entirely.

[xiulo88]

I'm tired to hear that t5 is for only a marginal player base. At this point if a guild with 24 premium memebers with a lvl 80 char is not farming the 3 first bosses of t4 at least is because they don't want to. There are several pugs happening every week that kill this 3 bosses and MC+entity without problem. I don't think you can find a player who has never been into a t4 raid.

So T5 is totally imperative. People is leaving the game because are bored to do t4 over and over. Crafting.. well it seams interesting in theory but... I think is going to be like t3.5, unchained dungeons or dragon's spine dungeons. Peolpe are lazy and their want to gear their chars as soon as possible with the best gear possible. If the crafted gear is worst than t4 gear most of people won't waste their time on it.

[Bibik]

T5 raid won't change anything, since no new player will ever see it, nor t3.5 nor t4.
Basically it's pretty conclusive now that almost no new player makes it to the end game, they stop way before they even have a shot at it.

Yup, you're right about it. I've never seen so much so-called "growing" guilds and beginners guilds in that game and sadly so few reaching the end-game content. In best scenario they're stuck in T2/T3.

Death ratio of guilds is very important cause they are often vampirized by well-established old ones who keep recruiting to keep their raidforce number high.

I would not want being a new player in AoC. It's kinda like EQ2 since years when everyone is focused on end-game, have end-game perspectives in their feedbacks about the game, wishes and suggestions. And now, we, endgame raiders, saw the end of the things when there's less and less newcomers, so the playerbase is getting smaller and smaller.

So is the issue is lack of newcomers (future vets) or vets leaving ? Numberwise, newcomers problem is more deep and have more consequences in long-terme for everyone here.