Why no T3.5 raids?

[Areana]

If you increase loot chance, people will just raid it a couple months until they got what they want and never come back. Not a solution.

That's unlike the situation we have now where people only raid a couple of weeks until they lose every illusion of ever getting anything out of it and cease to go there.

On a more serious note: We have a lot of people with full T4 toons who still go to the JC. You're right that there are also some who won't go there again once the toon is full but there are enough people of the other kind that keep T4 running. Most have alts they bring in after the main is full, so T4 won't be abandoned. So the issue you're mentioning above isn't a problem in T4.

That means there is something wrong with T3.5.

What T3.5 lacks with these low drop rates is a kind of progression. For me, it was progression to relearn the fights, kill the new bat and get faster clears in the following weeks. That was fun. Now that that we have farm status again with fast kills as well, the only progression left is progression in the equipment of your toons and of the raid as a whole. This is a progression you barely notice, so going there often feels like standing still. I still sign up for T3.5 but I can understand that it's difficult to motivate people to do so as well.

[Redd]

That's unlike the situation we have now where people only raid a couple of weeks until they lose every illusion of ever getting anything out of it and cease to go there.

On a more serious note: We have a lot of people with full T4 toons who still go to the JC. You're right that there are also some who won't go there again once the toon is full but there are enough people of the other kind that keep T4 running. Most have alts they bring in after the main is full, so T4 won't be abandoned. So the issue you're mentioning above isn't a problem in T4.

That means there is something wrong with T3.5.

What T3.5 lacks with these low drop rates is a kind of progression. For me, it was progression to relearn the fights, kill the new bat and get faster clears in the following weeks. That was fun. Now that that we have farm status again with fast kills as well, the only progression left is progression in the equipment of your toons and of the raid as a whole. This is a progression you barely notice, so going there often feels like standing still. I still sign up for T3.5 but I can understand that it's difficult to motivate people to do so as well.

I agree, you couldnt say it any better.

[Bibik]

Redoing T3.5 over and over with the "illusion" of progression (with gear) can't replace a real progression raid lacking with new content.

You try to emulate a progression with increased loot, which is not really the same. It is maybe some sort of incentive, especially if you're an assumed lootwhore, but it still won't have the magic of discovering the boss. Even "new bat" is really close to the old one, with deleted buggy mechanics, but almost no new one. Its is very logical that the "magic" faded very fast.

Now, i am almost sure increase greatly the loot chance of the new epics won't solve anything, it will maybe make an illusion of fresh content (and honestly, we're very thirsty of it so i understand your point, esp. atm when most of the raidguilds are struggling hard with their raidforces but can't admit it on publics forums ^^) illusion that will fade even more faster than the last time.

Increasing new loot chance, maybe a bit, like 25%. But not more. We were all aware when this t3.5/unchained loot update was posted on TL, that it will compensate the lack of new content (meaning that Cetriss will be very late). Some sort of throwing-a-bone update.

Harsh reality, but if Funcom want to increase the loot chance of new items in Erlik, they would admit that the raid sucks in other terms. And they have to do it very slightly cause as long as we will all finishes our lootwhoring here, the same problem will rise again without anything to fill the gap before Cetriss release.

[Redd]

Do we talk here that T3.5 should be a definite progression raid in AoC? NO

We all know and agree that the game needs T5 (Palace of Cetriss).


What we talk about here is the reasons why T3.5 feels like a wasted content for some ppl, and possible solutions other than lame nerfs.

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

one of the problem is that t3.5 gear is basically a lesser version of t4 one, just with slightly worse stats. i'm collecting it anyway, but just for collection, since my main is full t4. maybe it would be more appealing if fc would change it, to make it has a different set of stats, like more survivability, instead of dps, increasing the constitution and adding some protection.
of course there is the problem that t3.5 gear can be acquired without even stepping inside the temple, but just doing t3 and t4 raids, but maybe it could be solved placing the vendors behind a door that opens only when the raid has killed the bat, instead of out of the instance.

[Bibik]

What we talk about here is the reasons why T3.5 feels like a wasted content for some ppl, and possible solutions other than lame nerfs.

Read what Areana said : I am not the one who first talk about progression.
You think lame nerf is not a solution, i think tweaking loots again and again isn't one too (except for lootwhores).

[Argantes]

Well, while adding some loot and removing some trash mobs brought some new people in the instance, it´s not enough.. well known problem is the uselessness of the old loot in comparison with T4 gear, but that new loot doesn´t help much because of its horrible drop rate.
While in T3, Keeper and Toth drop at least some accessory almost every time, it took us several weeks to see the very first new item in T3,5. And still, after months of weekly instance clearing, we´re yet to see some of those new added pieces. Also rings, they more often don´t drop than they do and then, once they drop, they replace the old armor loot, where´s the logic in that?

The whole instance is just beautiful, difficulty is ok and with less trash the progress through instance is pretty smooth, but the loot.. the loot is mostly not worth the effort for the new people, since they can buy those "vanity" items just by using T3 and T4 relics, once they´ve got overflow of them.

[Noumides]

Thank you for your answers!

OK, I understand now why ppl avoid T3.5 and preffer T4 instead, so naturally a new question arises:

Why ppl and guilds even bother to do T3? T3 gear is worse that T3.5 and lacks the critigation stat...

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

Thank you for your answers!

OK, I understand now why ppl avoid T3.5 and preffer T4 instead, so naturally a new question arises:

Why ppl and guilds even bother to do T3? T3 gear is worse that T3.5 and lacks the critigation stat...

guilds do t3 to gear alts, because when you know the tactics, it's fairly easy...
on the other side, t3.5 is pretty hard and doesn't allow to bring undergeared toons...

[Areana]

Redoing T3.5 over and over with the "illusion" of progression (with gear) can't replace a real progression raid lacking with new content.

You try to emulate a progression with increased loot, which is not really the same. It is maybe some sort of incentive, especially if you're an assumed lootwhore, but it still won't have the magic of discovering the boss. Even "new bat" is really close to the old one, with deleted buggy mechanics, but almost no new one. Its is very logical that the "magic" faded very fast.

Now, i am almost sure increase greatly the loot chance of the new epics won't solve anything, it will maybe make an illusion of fresh content (and honestly, we're very thirsty of it so i understand your point, esp. atm when most of the raidguilds are struggling hard with their raidforces but can't admit it on publics forums ^^) illusion that will fade even more faster than the last time.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your reasoning. What does T5 have to do with anything? Are you trying to tell me, that letting the low drop rates of T3.5 as they are and removing the -- in your eyes fake -- "illusion" of progression will bring T5 sooner? Or that low drop rates will help to keep your feeling of accomplishment (="magic") once you killed a new boss for the first time?

That feeling will fade regardless of drop rates. Besides, as it is with illusions, that progression in T4 feels very much real. It doesn't mean loot whoring, though. Like I said, I also enjoy it, when the raid as a whole gets better and other people get rewarded for their efforts. Or when the health bars of bosses melt even faster because of the shiny new purplez all our damage dealers got.

Going in there with the same toon you went there for weeks, doing the same thing all over again and then, after killing all three bosses, going out without anyone getting anything useful for the whole week is disappointing at best.

What do you think why so many more people do T4 than T3.5?