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Thread: Tanking: Fearless or courageous?

  1. #11

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    Aggrowise:
    Courageous mainpieces have 34 more hate increase and 14 more hit rating then fearless. (lol @ anyone bringing up the health regen)
    Fearless mainpieces have 175 crit rating and 145 crit damage rating more then their courageous counterparts.

    Look at those numbers again and tell me where courageous has more aggro.

    Don't be fooled by the armor on courageous.
    In the end courageous mainpieces have only 28 more armor which at those mitigation levels (+/- 59%) with the deminishing returns on armor-->mitigation is nothing. The only reason to ever go for courageous mainpieces on a guard is if you want the constitution. (Demigod and Archfiend come to mind)

    the T4 set with highest aggro for ANY soldier is: Fearless mainpieces, Indomitable feet-belt-hands, courageous wrists-shoulders.

    Only deviations for this is that you could argue the indomitable head has more aggro for a DT (doubt it tbh) and Courageous hands might be a better choice for guards (doubt it again: 60crit vs 23hate).

    Now a guard could use courageous small pieces since his loss in aggro will be minor and he gains some constitution. Apart from that the combination I mentioned above is the highest aggro set for any soldier.

    Anyone telling you crit/critdmg does not matter on a guard should have themselves checked out.

    EDIT: if you want the hate so badly get the wrists, hands, rings and neck from the unchained dungeons. There is much more to be gained there.
    Last edited by Caudilloo; 15th January 2014 at 17:55.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redd View Post
    Halfdead you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Lol at thinking FS set is about aggro whoring...

    Good job on maximizing your hate by 1% with CS over loads of crit rating and crit damage rating while having the same mitigation with FS.
    Sure thing.. You don't know me at all.

    I'll never claim to be the best guard. But I can always hold aggro off any dps class.

    I have a differing opinion on the subject, doesn't mean I am wrong. Can attack me some more if you want to though.

    Crit/cdr means nothing to a guard, class is not a DT. All about rotation and feats/AAs. I honestly don't care, but I prefer Courageous. If the stats are so close, why bother to argue?
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfdead View Post
    Sure thing.. You don't know me at all.

    I'll never claim to be the best guard. But I can always hold aggro off any dps class.

    I have a differing opinion on the subject, doesn't mean I am wrong. Can attack me some more if you want to though.

    Crit/cdr means nothing to a guard, class is not a DT. All about rotation and feats/AAs. I honestly don't care, but I prefer Courageous. If the stats are so close, why bother to argue?


    Not attacking you, just stating the obvious, saying crit damage and crit rating have no effect on guardians is what is lacking in your knowledge about the class.

    And stats are not close at all, CS has no crit rating and not as much crit damage as Fearless, that is not close.
    Last edited by Redd; 15th January 2014 at 19:34.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redd View Post
    Not attacking you, just stating the obvious, saying crit damage and crit rating have no effect on guardians is what is lacking in your knowledge about the class.

    And stats are not close at all, CS has no crit rating and crit damage, that is not close.
    Can you lock aggro against a full T4 guard in pure Stoneheart gear? A pro guard can. That set has 0 aggro, crit, cdr. I am not trying to say crit/cdr/cr has no effect, anything that could possibly increase dps is obviously going to help a guard, everyone knows that. I apologize if you think I meant it means absolutely nothing. I have played a guard since launch. Too bad class skill died long ago.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfdead View Post
    Can you lock aggro against a full T4 guard in pure Stoneheart gear? A pro guard can. That set has 0 aggro, crit, cdr. I am not trying to say crit/cdr/cr has no effect, anything that could possibly increase dps is obviously going to help a guard, everyone knows that. I apologize if you think I meant it means absolutely nothing. I have played a guard since launch. Too bad class skill died long ago.
    Sure sure, only thing is you need a totally stupid T4 guard that way to lock him out without any hate/crit. I guess all T4 guards basically have the same rotations, one masters it a bit more then the other, but it's not gonna make that much difference..

  6. #16

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    We all agree that +hate is important to Guards - what is difficult to answer is how important it is compared to additional DPS.

    If a Guard generating ~500 DPS can hold aggro against ~2000 DPS then the implication is that the Guard is generating 1500 in hidden hate aggro. I've also observed ~300 DPS Guard holding off over 1500 DPS.

    I'm pretty sure that DPS related feats (crit rating, crit damage, combat rating, str) only affect the DPS portion and NOT the hidden hate portion of a Guard's aggro. On the other hand +hate affects the hidden hate aggro and most likely the DPS portion as well. What this means is that 1% hate for a Guard is equivalent to at least 3% damage (perhaps as high as 4-5%) DPS.

    IMO the extra hate and health from Courageous (main pieces) are useful, and outweighs the very nice bonuses from Fearless for physical fights. From parses even with my low base crit chance of ~7%, my Overreaches crit ~30% and Titanic Smash over 70% on average thanks to the Guard Destroyer buff... so even though additional crit rating/damage is nice, I don't think I get as much out of it as +hate.

    If you want to optimize what set to get first, it depends on what Khitai/T3 you start with. My Guard has BDA helm and legs, and LL hate chest. So for me I'd get Fearless chest, and Courageous helm and legs first. Still a tough decision because the Emperor fight is much more difficult than other tanking fights so it is still nice to have Fearless first.
    Malaise-DT, Tabixis-Guard, Cocobel-Sin, Elari-ToS (pvp 4), Orsela-PoM, Aarva-BS (pvp 7)

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civilix View Post
    For S&B guard the question is more what kind of damage you will be tanking, tanking physical fights you take Courageous because of the higher aggro and survivability, and against magic you use Fearless.

    The added crit and crit damage from fearless makes close to no diffrence for a S&B guard, more important is the additional hit rating on the Courageous set that allows you to use rings/neck without hit rating.
    Todays bull, but you've always had abit of a funny way to look at things in this game

    Agree with red, Fearless over Couragus big pieces. But with Couragus smallpieces.
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  8. #18

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    thanks for the feedback guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfir View Post
    What I'm more curious about is the what shield people prefer, the DT shield or the guard shield? I myself never had the luxury of getting the guard shield, but I do have the dt shield. Guess due to diminishing returns, the armor gained doesn't make that much of a difference.

    So it's 62 crit + 210 combat rating vs 41 hate which is like 1.7% crit vs 1.2% hate, guess that's pretty equal right?
    that's a good point, considering there's no better sword for guards than the T4 one, which shield would you use? (talking about melee fights, regarding magic dmg i guess there's no argument about waning boundary).

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrefaeli View Post
    thanks for the feedback guys!



    that's a good point, considering there's no better sword for guards than the T4 one, which shield would you use? (talking about melee fights, regarding magic dmg i guess there's no argument about waning boundary).
    Well, there are some people who will definitely prefer those shields over waning boundary:
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...ege_shield.jpg
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...len_empire.jpg
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...f_sanctity.jpg

    Looking at the stats, I'm not that much of a fan when it comes to the T3.5 shield, the paladins shield seems to be impossible to get. So the only alternative there would be the fallen empire shield

  10. #20

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    i think that by looking at the stats, waning boundary still wins, with it's 70 constitution,40 crit and the whooping ~450 protection (and the best looks out of all those shields )

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