so FUNCOM what's the deal with the soldier class??

[End-of-Clothies]

Funcom Joel do you guys play your own games? are you guys planning to nerf or do something soon with this class or we all just need to role one of them to compete, have fun and not die in 3 combos or at least scratch their armor? can you explain what's the point to role a clothie or light armor class when the more strong class in game deal same or even more damage with the best armor, higher protection and survavility plus a insane cc resistance?? if you are not planning to do something about it is the mage revamp really coming someday or is another promise that will never see? and yes I'm talking about conquerors, dark Templars and guardian god mode classes in pvp, someone pls open this in test live forums

[Bukkithedd]

Nerfing soldiers won't do crap to fix PvP, since PvP is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Besides, if you fix the PvP-side of Soldiers, you'll kill PvE. And as much as you may not like to hear this, the PvE-side of the game is fine. Ish. You may not care two hoots about what a nerf would to to the PvE-side of the game, but I can guarantee you that the majority of the playerbase does.

Only a complete and total disconnect between PvP and PvE in terms of gear and feats/AA's can do anything to fix the /godmode you say that Soldiers have. Until and unless that disconnect happens there can be no balancing through nerfs/boosts that won't hideously alter one or the other side of the game. Hell, they've already given people an alternate spec-possibility. Why not give them two more specslots purely for PvP, and two new inventory-panes specifically for PvP-gear/vanity (of course, the whole idea of PvP-gear is UTTERLY ridiculous in itself, but that's another story entirely).

[Chaman-bourru]

Nerfing soldiers won't do crap to fix PvP, since PvP is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Besides, if you fix the PvP-side of Soldiers, you'll kill PvE.

PvP and PvE don't fundamentaly rely on the same mechanics. So fixing one side of it doesn't necessarly dumb down. For instance, if you drasticly reduce tanks DPS... but counterbalance it by a lore more hate generation... It will make a change in PvP without changing much into PvE except lowering the e-peen dps bar of tanks dps. It wouldn't change much to how the fights work.

Stating the obvious. I'll just shut up now.

[Bibik]

Aye aye signed.

As for the PvE-side, it's not balanced too, DW-conqs and tanking tali-dt with perma sadism are really stupid too but since it's pve, people prefers having a dumbed-down game as long as they can perform well with cookie-cutter builds.

[Suctum]

Nerfing soldiers won't do crap to fix PvP, since PvP is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Besides, if you fix the PvP-side of Soldiers, you'll kill PvE. And as much as you may not like to hear this, the PvE-side of the game is fine. Ish. You may not care two hoots about what a nerf would to to the PvE-side of the game, but I can guarantee you that the majority of the playerbase does.

Only a complete and total disconnect between PvP and PvE in terms of gear and feats/AA's can do anything to fix the /godmode you say that Soldiers have. Until and unless that disconnect happens there can be no balancing through nerfs/boosts that won't hideously alter one or the other side of the game. Hell, they've already given people an alternate spec-possibility. Why not give them two more specslots purely for PvP, and two new inventory-panes specifically for PvP-gear/vanity (of course, the whole idea of PvP-gear is UTTERLY ridiculous in itself, but that's another story entirely).

I think the things most of the community are asking to be looked at have no effect on pvp.

(1) Changing the time it takes to swap stances. How could this effect anything in pve other than a greedy parser.

(2) Changing the energy threshold and regeneration time on soldiers. If I can kite almost any encounter on my demo than this would not affect pve at all since mage energy is the lowest.

(3) Changing the protection threshold on heavy and plate armor. Again, would not affect anything pve.

(4) Balancing out AA CC resists, this could have some effect on solo pve but not so much anyone could complain about it or would be noticeable. Removing the second snare resist and replacing it with a .50% evade or .50% immunity per point (up to 2.5% with 5/5) would be the better way to go.

(5) Removing or increasing the recast time the AA break (which I think should be removed from all classes actually), no effect on pve except solo pve.

(6) Remove or reduce the crit rating and crit damage off of Heavy and Plate armor, at the very least make it less than regular considered dps classes like the pvp t1 armor used to be. Again, no change to pve.

(7) Possibly rework AA feats such as VoM and BFC to where additional + hate could balance out reduced dps. If they balance the hate with the dps the only effect it would have in pve is reducing someone's parser. It was a huge mistake to move from hate generated agro to dps generated agro because crit damage and crit rating is what puts tanks over the top in PvP with equal dps of actual dps classes but very little loss in survivability with how the protection is calculated with heavy and plate pvp armor, the increased protection on newer pve accessories, and AA protections.

(8) (*) Rebalance frenzy stance. Frenzy does not have a big enough debuff to counter protections when at 55-60% in defensive because you could not reach that level of protection before AA was introduced. If pvp armor will not be rebalanced on protection than the other option is to increase the debuff on frenzy. Also, it's the magic damage multiplier that causes most of the dps inconsistencies with frenzy, it needs to be removed all together or reduced.

*I would not ask for decreasing protections on pvp armor AND increasing the debuff from frenzy, that would be too much. Either rebalance the armor or change frenzy, one or the other. Rebalancing the pvp armor IMO is the better way to go than messing with regular class abilities.

The only one of these suggestions that would have consequence on pve would be changing/adding +hate to BFC/Assail and VoM to balance out reducing some of the dps from these abilities. It's the weapon damage(BFC) and crit damage buff) from VoM that create huge disparities in pvp. Guardian, it's mainly the CC resist and how the magic damage multiplier from frenzy affects reckoning- and for all 3 archetypes the pvp armor needs a reduction on protection.

[davetheconq]

Nothing is wrong. Classes are where they should be.
All classes.

[Bukkithedd]

*good suggestions*

All good points, those. But how will you then stop new PvE-systems from again upsetting the balance in PvP? That's why I'd love to see a disconnect between PvP and PvE in terms of feats/AA's and gear, although I personally think gear should have very little to say in PvP (I know THAT train left the station years ago, though :P).

[Religolibri]

Nothing is wrong. Classes are where they should be.
All classes.

Reason why I started rolling a soldier so I can have fun too.

[henryabccba]

do you think any soldier can push in a siege with 20-30+mages nuking and stay alive without the protection level now? mini game is not the only thing in pvp, we need to consider the whole picture, reducing protection will ruin soldiers'role in siege, especially when all the mages are full t4. i dont want to see soldiers turtle and do nothing in seige when mages happy pewpewpew.

[Suctum]

do you think any soldier can push in a siege with 20-30+mages nuking and stay alive without the protection level now? mini game is not the only thing in pvp, we need to consider the whole picture, reducing protection will ruin soldiers'role in siege, especially when all the mages are full t4. i dont want to see soldiers turtle and do nothing in seige when mages happy pewpewpew.

How many sieges have you been in the last 2 years? 10 maybe? Sieges just do not happen, while mini games happen all day every day.

And when you have 55-60% magical mitigation it really does not matter that much in a siege because there is so much AoE and range that you still die in seconds if 10+ people have you targeted.

It's no different when the ranger revamp was out and each siege had 15+ rangers 1 shotting everyone, I agree t4 pve armor is over the top. I'm not debating that. But no, not everyone has t4 pve armor and using that as a basis to balance pvp armor is not a viable argument. Everyone agrees soldier pvp protection is outrageous, even most people that main them, and most of the inconsistencies is with soldier pvp armor, which needs the most adjustment, followed by the magical damage modifier on frenzy, and then some energy adjustments. None of this will hamper siege pvp except a soldier might actually die just as regularly as the rest of the classes if they Rambo out by themselves and not with a group.