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Thread: Energy tweaks

  1. #1

    Default Energy tweaks

    Anyone else thinks that the energy still needs some tweaks, in general, class specific (abilities mainly)?
    If so, let's share some ideas to improve things a bit here. Since class tweaks take 10 years to make, here are some of mine that crossed my mind just now for a general approach:

    - Jumping while in combat removes half the energy amount of sprinting.
    Example to understand: if you lose 1% of energy when sprinting for each 1m then, WHEN IN COMBAT, if you jump, not matter if sprinting or not, you lose 0.5% of energy, if not in combat you dont lose energy (better to travel faster for raids while jumping over some obstacles on the way, for example)...
    Anyway, i say this one because players jump around to avoid being hit, well is a tactic and i'm not against it, but i think it would help better on energy management department if that is implemented. Another reason is the lag that came with the server merge (specially with players from different continents) its a pain in the ass and not at all fun (trying to hit someone at the same time predicting the lag teleport) and there's not much funcom can do to solve that type of lag problem, so this could help in a passive way...

    - Change how classes energy consumption/regen work.
    Currently from what i see, the energy consumption/regen depends on the archetype and not a class by it self (some can improve things with abilities and feats, but thats not the issue), so what i'm trying to say is that each class on itself has its own consumption/regen of energy and not based on Archetype. This idea could help, for example the HoX, he has the same energy management has demos/necros that need energy to run away mainly and also the same running speed, so, since HoX is a melee class, it depends a lot on movement and running around like all other melee classes, the HoX could run faster than demo/necro and spend less energy for that reason but not have the management has rogues; another class with the same example is the BS vs PoM/ToS; tanks in my opinion should have the lowest energy regen and higher consumption (heavy armor after all). So, with this in mind, these order could be made:

    From highest energy consumption to lowest:
    -> Tanks (all with the same)
    -> PoM/ToS (same for both)
    -> BS
    -> Demo/Necro (same for both)
    -> HoX
    -> Ranger (for the reason of medium armor and ranged class)
    -> Barb/Sin
    (*bit hard to determine which rogue consumes more or less because of they're feats/abilities that are possible to choose)

    From highest energy regen to lowest:
    -> sin, barb, hox, bs
    -> pom, tos, demo, necro, ranger
    -> tanks
    can't really tell about this one because i don't have the knowledge on all classes and they're feats/abilities (someone with that knowledge can do better maths) but i just think tanks should have the lowest followed by casters, and melee (except tank) should have the higher. Tanks having the worst energy consumption/regen might improve a bit on the OP issues

    - Soldier stance determines consumption only.
    Easy to spot what im trying to say, so Neutral stance on the soldier is "normal" consumption, defensive/offensive stances consumes more/less. I really dont know which one would be better to make it consume more and which to consume less, but what i do think is that this could help a bit on OP issues of soldiers classes, specially when they carry a flag on minigames (which stance to use because of consumption!?)

    Comment on my ideas and add some more that you think it will help the enjoyment, oh and these ideas are not in the perspective of them all being used/implemented at the same time, im just sharing thoughts on to improve things overall, all can be bad, all can be good, some details from one mixed with the other could be good, etc. And please don't troll and rage each others, comment constructively if you feel an idea is bad/good just say why, advantages and disadvantages (*crossfingers*).

    Happy Holidays
    Last edited by NoComment; 28th December 2013 at 17:04.
    Why i play AoC:
    Barb for Lore;
    HoX for challenge;
    BS for fun;
    Ranger to annoy;

  2. #2

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    Sins and barbs must always kite to survive. But when guards polearms can tickle you across the whole map it's unfair. I dislike that my guard can run further than most of my melee's.

  3. #3

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    Yes it would be nice to tweak energy mechanics, but we could also make stamina relevant again maybe (since there is mana management for some classes but absolutely no stamina management, even for soldiers).

    I'm fine with rogues having plenty of energy/stam, but soldiers shouldn't be such agile and relentless creatures (at least in the current state of things with stances and the retarded tank gear).
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CueQue View Post
    Sins and barbs must always kite to survive. But when guards polearms can tickle you across the whole map it's unfair. I dislike that my guard can run further than most of my melee's.
    i though of that since they are hit and run classes, reason they could have the highest regen rate by default and lowest consumption, HoX could be close to that but not as much (its hybrid after all)

    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    Yes it would be nice to tweak energy mechanics, but we could also make stamina relevant again maybe (since there is mana management for some classes but absolutely no stamina management, even for soldiers).

    I'm fine with rogues having plenty of energy/stam, but soldiers shouldn't be such agile and relentless creatures (at least in the current state of things with stances and the retarded tank gear).
    i remember that now, about the endless stamina vs the management of mana, maybe increasing the amount of stamina stolen by Dash ability on melees or better yet more stamina loss on combos for rogues and soldiers, leaving mages/priests as it is but maybe bs and hox with a small difference/exception...

    but yeah, definitely stop the endless stamina
    Why i play AoC:
    Barb for Lore;
    HoX for challenge;
    BS for fun;
    Ranger to annoy;

  5. #5

    Default

    I don't think you need tweak on energy, energy itself is mostly fine and not the main reason why soldiers have the upper hand in pvp.

    Also, it seems you want to balance things but forget some other advantages some class have towards movement & energy consumption. Let's take an illustration : Charge. Charge is a melee-exclusivity and gives the ability to catch a guy using energy without using any energy.
    So, in your will of "balance", how do you handle charges ? Do they need to have an energy cost as well ?

    Same for stagger, you introduce your argumentation with the fact people can kite/jump over and over melees hits. That's why Funcom created stagger and i think it's enough to help melees catching people and landing combos. Especially when :
    1/ Stagger can comes from charge.
    2/ Stagger can be applied by ranged weapons
    3/ Stagger can be applied by AoE/large radius combos

    So i don't think it's very wise to punish the same classes twice.

    And what about speed boost ? Why did Barb&Sin are the lower on your nerflist when thoses 2 classes have insane speedboost (especially when you refer to how servers fvck up to position exactly a guy jumping, so what about a sin with acceleration or a barb with AM+Haste ?)

    Finally, this post give me the feeling that you want to nerf (not directly) some class you have troubles to kill or you don't play and give better energy management to class which don't really need that (ranger, really ?). The only point i'm agree is for the soldiers, but i'm pretty sure it won't really affect their power. So i fear it's pretty complicated work for few results and further imbalances.
    Last edited by Bibik; 28th December 2013 at 19:34.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bibik View Post
    I don't think you need tweak on energy, energy itself is mostly fine and not the main reason why soldiers have the upper hand in pvp.

    Also, it seems you want to balance things but forget some other advantages some class have towards movement & energy consumption. Let's take an illustration : Charge. Charge is a melee-exclusivity and gives the ability to catch a guy using energy without using any energy.
    So, in your will of "balance", how do you handle charges ? Do they need to have an energy cost as well ?

    Same for stagger, you introduce your argumentation with the fact people can kite/jump over and over melees hits. That's why Funcom created stagger and i think it's enough to help melees catching people and landing combos. Especially when :
    1/ Stagger can comes from charge.
    2/ Stagger can be applied by ranged weapons
    3/ Stagger can be applied by AoE/large radius combos

    So i don't think it's very wise to punish the same classes twice.

    And what about speed boost ? Why did Barb&Sin are the lower on your nerflist when thoses 2 classes have insane speedboost (especially when you refer to how servers fvck up to position exactly a guy jumping, so what about a sin with acceleration or a barb with AM+Haste ?)

    Finally, this post give me the feeling that you want to nerf (not directly) some class you have troubles to kill or you don't play and give better energy management to class which don't really need that (ranger, really ?). The only point i'm agree is for the soldiers, but i'm pretty sure it won't really affect their power. So i fear it's pretty complicated work for few results and further imbalances.
    about the stagger, there are the double-taps to help on that and they do steal energy when used, so i think it stays as it is, pp just need to use the double-tap more often (i use then all even the forward to stun) and avoid being attacked from the back at all costs

    barbs and sins are an issue when on speed buff + lag, barb specially loves to jump around players when they have AM active, stealing energy on jump could give the opponent, even if opponent is a barb, a different chance and/or balance but more important the attacker has to know when to jump because if he needs to run away and jumped a lot, he wont run away to far

    and no, its not the intent to nerf any class, my main is a barb class and i love to jump around also when on speed buffs, but i also think its stupid how easy i can stay alive with less than 50% health against a melee just by jumping around and waiting until someone shows up and kills that class and saves my ass

    as i said, its an open discussion on different opinions, the advantages/disavantages about the ideas i shared, i cant view them all, thats why i came to forum, and you, in this case considered a disadvantage on the list for barb/sins, some will consider advantage, some other even more disadvantages, share your own list from your point of view, and then at the end with several points of view it can be concluded with whats best.. not mine thats for sure, i dont have the knowledge on all classes, so i dont come here saying MINE IS BEST, no, that would be retard, i just shared one with advantages/disavantages that came up on my head
    Last edited by NoComment; 28th December 2013 at 20:05.
    Why i play AoC:
    Barb for Lore;
    HoX for challenge;
    BS for fun;
    Ranger to annoy;

  7. #7

    Default

    Stagger should be removed and Energy reworked. Stagger doesnt help melees to catch ranged. it helps rangers that no one can get away from then. thats all.

    Stagger is especially stupid because its apllied even by aoe. which means, even if you look out where your current target is hitting from, if someone behind you makes aoe it will stagger you. totally stupid mechanic. it makes fights slower then they should be, is applied everytime you hit someone intended or not somewhere that looks being your targets back (which it isnt quite often), it is absolutely not situational and skillless. Does favor melees with higher range instead to be at least the same for everyone.

    Funcom should finally remove it and make changes to energy.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatochi View Post
    Stagger should be removed and Energy reworked. Stagger doesnt help melees to catch ranged. it helps rangers that no one can get away from then. thats all.

    Stagger is especially stupid because its apllied even by aoe. which means, even if you look out where your current target is hitting from, if someone behind you makes aoe it will stagger you. totally stupid mechanic. it makes fights slower then they should be, is applied everytime you hit someone intended or not somewhere that looks being your targets back (which it isnt quite often), it is absolutely not situational and skillless. Does favor melees with higher range instead to be at least the same for everyone.

    Funcom should finally remove it and make changes to energy.
    I agree, with combos being mainly 1 or 2 step and 90% of cc's requiring more than a .5 second cast time stagger should be removed. It's pointless now that energy and not stamina is used as the resource.
    Doomsayer 2008

  9. #9

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    nerfing down sins and barbs energy even lower would put them even more down in food chain, mowement is only key to survive anyway, and like we all know that cloth armors has no spot in pvp anyways, well nor in pve either, why take barb when conq do more dmg + has combat res and wont die instantly if takes aggro, sin only use for cover of dusk and other perks, if not those needed u can replace it by conq too, more dmg + combat res

    nerf energy but gief heavy armor balance ftw
    The Law

  10. #10

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    The OP is not asking to nerf sin or barb, where did you read that? In fact, he's mostly just asking to nerf tank's mobility and keep sin/barb at the top.
    Last edited by kalston; 29th December 2013 at 18:10.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

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