Energy tweaks

[Ieronon]

Then comes mobility. Personnally i think sprinting should be stamina based (therefore can be drained with stam leaching combos) and combos should be energy based (still having to manage it and if you don't, you have to trade sprinting time to keep hitting). That would mostly nerf tanks. Since sprint revamp, pinning down a Flag Carrier or a tank is impossible. Before you could by draining his stamina, it was a pain because you couldn't run nor do combos. But if you could have still done combos, but no sprint, it would have made sense. Now if you drain someones stamina, he can't do combos, but can still sprint away. The otherway round would be much better in my opinion. And rogues would get back to having a sprinting advantage.

Well the issue with draining is not that combos are on stamina and sprinting on energy, it's rather that while after revamp most stamina drains were made to drain energy as well (or block energy regen), those drains have been not been made significant enough, in both domains (on top of sprinting/comboing not being on a shared pool).

There's for example that debuff (enervate ? innervate ?) that's supposed to block energy regeneration for a few seconds that is a quite a joke. Also I can't think of any draining ability that would remove more than 1s of sprinting per application...

The fact that it's impossible to precisely monitor your target's energy bar (as it is with health and stamina) makes it even more vain to try to have a draining strategy.

[Suctum]

Well the issue with draining is not that combos are on stamina and sprinting on energy, it's rather that while after revamp most stamina drains were made to drain energy as well (or block energy regen), those drains have been not been made significant enough, in both domains (on top of sprinting/comboing not being on a shared pool).

There's for example that debuff (enervate ? innervate ?) that's supposed to block energy regeneration for a few seconds that is a quite a joke. Also I can't think of any draining ability that would remove more than 1s of sprinting per application...

The fact that it's impossible to precisely monitor your target's energy bar (as it is with health and stamina) makes it even more vain to try to have a draining strategy.

The sprint revamp which was supposed to introduce a "tactical resource" did nothing but give almost everyone unlimited mobility. There's nothing tactical about it, you can literally run from one end of the map to another.

To be sure, the energy drain/block abilities which they incorporated into combos and abilities with the change do nothing. It's reasonable to say these abilities do next to nothing if anything at all.

Another issue that came out of the sprint revamp is that stamina and mana are not equal as a resource. If you play a caster you'll find that you run out of your mana resource much faster than a melee type will run out of their stamina, if at all. Again, nothing tactical about this, mana still needs some management, stamina management is only using a stam pot occasionally.

And still, the removal of the negative effects of exhaustion (-50% Casting Concentration, -50% hit chance and evade) means people just do not care about expending the "tactical" resource that energy was supposed to be at all, all you see are people with red rings at their feet and right back to sprinting. If there was a debuff to running out of energy, actual abilities that impacted regeneration, and a need to actually manage energy, it would be a tactical resource.

All the above benefit tanks much more than other classes, where having freedom of movement and never ending sprint makes it very easy to run flags, score, and generally not have any problem keeping up with anyone else. The fact stagger is still around even after they did the revamp (which at this point it's no longer needed) compounds the problem even more.

Another issue totally away from energy with tanks is the AA perks. BFC (40% weapon damage) is way out of line. My Conq in almost entirely blue tiger gear, crafted rings and neck, and a lordly cloak with 2 crafted axes has over 460 dps in frenzy. Once I start to procc, I can get up past 600 dps, in blue gear. That's outrageous. Same with DT, once you hit 3 or 4 proccs of VoM it's equally stupid. The you have frenzy and defensive stance, where if your full AA and pvp gear frenzy really does not hamper your survivability at all. My guard in Frenzy still has close to 30% magical mitigation and I am not full AA nor do I have any protection gear outside pvp t1 gear. There's a lot wrong with how tanks are built in the current era of AoC.

No, nobody here is asking for a huge nerf. But tanks should be inline with other classes, Frenzy should provide real risk vs. reward, tanks should have a limited sprint only slightly better than casters, stagger should be removed period, or added in the general tree as a feat. PvP armor for all classes should be readjusted to a lower protection budget, especially tanks. And finally, the CC resists and breaks for tanks should be looked at. The balance pre AA was that tanks had very little in the way of breaking CC's which was the balance. You could CC a tank and be sure it held, now, it's CC, break, CC, resist, CC immune/missed, CC...finally hit one that stuck.

This discussion needs to be moved to test live where some developer might actually see it, the community as a whole see's the problems and agrees there should be some minor changes to even up the tank archetype to be more in line with the others...

[Chaman-bourru]

Well the issue with draining is not that combos are on stamina and sprinting on energy, it's rather that while after revamp most stamina drains were made to drain energy as well (or block energy regen), those drains have been not been made significant enough, in both domains (on top of sprinting/comboing not being on a shared pool).

There's for example that debuff (enervate ? innervate ?) that's supposed to block energy regeneration for a few seconds that is a quite a joke. Also I can't think of any draining ability that would remove more than 1s of sprinting per application...

The fact that it's impossible to precisely monitor your target's energy bar (as it is with health and stamina) makes it even more vain to try to have a draining strategy.

Yes of course. What i meant is just that, considering how most the mechanics work today, the otherway around would be better.

So if energy was drainable, and that you could see properly the amount of energy your target had left it would be fine enough. But IMO sprinting is what should require the most management rather than having too manage combos, especially in PvP.

[Bortukali]

what about increasing rogues and mages pvp gear stats before nerfing soldiers, think it would make them more dangerous to soldiers at least (more dps and more armor/prot)!? of course this effect would go against priests but they can handle themselves pretty well currently and against themselves (rogues/mages) its the same since both archetypes get increased stats all around...

but yeah, after reading all the posts, everyone seems to agree that doing something on soldiers is the way to go, now we just need to gather a "list" of what

i didnt posted this thread on TestLive forums because most players respond on this forums, so the idea is gather a small portion of "something" that everyone agrees and then put it in testLive forum so devs dont need to read too much (its not easy to spend hours reading lots of posts after hours of programming and developing, believe im a programmer myself)

a few more days, if no one does it, will gather from the answer here a list of what is most agreed and pack it up in one post (maybe edit the Original Post with it)

oh, and a happy new year everyone

[Suctum]

what about increasing rogues and mages pvp gear stats before nerfing soldiers, think it would make them more dangerous to soldiers at least (more dps and more armor/prot)!? of course this effect would go against priests but they can handle themselves pretty well currently and against themselves (rogues/mages) its the same since both archetypes get increased stats all around...

but yeah, after reading all the posts, everyone seems to agree that doing something on soldiers is the way to go, now we just need to gather a "list" of what

i didnt posted this thread on TestLive forums because most players respond on this forums, so the idea is gather a small portion of "something" that everyone agrees and then put it in testLive forum so devs dont need to read too much (its not easy to spend hours reading lots of posts after hours of programming and developing, believe im a programmer myself)

a few more days, if no one does it, will gather from the answer here a list of what is most agreed and pack it up in one post (maybe edit the Original Post with it)

oh, and a happy new year everyone

I actually collected some of the communities concerns, you can view this link to where I posted on Test Live. I think I got most of what was being debated and asked for, but feel free to correct any errors or add on.

http://forums-tl.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=59049

I think most of us are beyond defending our primary classes and would just like to see a little more balance for pvp, especially for premades (which is the only competitive outlet we have) where certain classes are just at such a severe disadvantage compared to others that's it not worth playing them in that circumstance.

[SamHam]

Aye, and for all the dedication here in the regular forums, it's just you and me discussing on TL :P Move your asses over to TL and chip in, ppl. Class forums are there for your thoughts on your classes (soldiers) and how to balance them out.

[Blows]

If you nerf a ToS' energy even further, they are properly screwed. From a pvp pov I can't speak, but have you ever done T'ian'an on a ToS? Everyone is halway the map and you are like 200 meters behind them. Going in to spellweave will also require taking the energy buff more often, nerfing their dps alot in spellweave.

Nerfing a tos is not something that's needed, considering the last revamp didn't do them good either..

[Derled]

If you nerf a ToS' energy even further, they are properly screwed. From a pvp pov I can't speak, but have you ever done T'ian'an on a ToS? Everyone is halway the map and you are like 200 meters behind them. Going in to spellweave will also require taking the energy buff more often, nerfing their dps alot in spellweave.

Nerfing a tos is not something that's needed, considering the last revamp didn't do them good either..

well in pvp with tos, you cant catch anyone, and you cant run from anyone, :/