Joel Boyles - PVP Unchained Questions

[Zatochi]

Erm yeah kinda stopped reading there lol

So you are saying a skilled F2P player with NO AA and low purple gear can beat a skilled player with high AA and high gear

When both of these skilled players meet gear and AA will win

like Vehl said, using both extremes says nothing.

and if 2 players palying against each other and both are on same skilllevel of course gear will be important. but critluck is although... the whole pvp system in a mmo is absed on luck. luck to crit, luck to hit etc pp. this is way more important then gear. and overall there is skill. you can have best gear ingame, if you dont know which sinergies you can use betwen your skills and if you dont know what your own class and the class of your enemy is capable off, you wont win.

and if the f2p loses to the subbed t4 guy, the f2p guy didnt have enough skill. i did not say, that gear doesnt matter at all, i said with enough skill you can counter nearly everything gear can offer. this doesnt mean, that someone with only little more skill then another will win all the time. this wont work just because of luck based fighting mechanics like crit and hit rating stuff mentioned above. this is math...

if you want more skill, then talk about deleting all instant stuff like instant cc and instant damage, talk about more sinergies between skills to get a cc or damage so it is important to time your struff and to know what skill you can use with another to get a certain effekt.

skill is not speed like most selftitled pvpers are saying who want skip back ingame because it was such a high skill needed to skip animations. it needed so much skill that you could even script it... i hope the irony is clear.

[ViolentLeonidas]

Seriously... a F2P player with no AA either subs to get some, or stops playing PvP in AoC (and since in F2P you can't PvE much...).

Taking two extremes doesn't mean much if it's unlikely and concerns a very small chunk of the population.

That being, gear gap needs to be reduced, but no gear gap isn't either a good solution if you ask me.

Yes I wish they would sub or stop pvping BUT they don't and current aoc minis mixes all up together
You would be surprised the amount of players going into minis with NO AAs....I remember few weeks ago joining a bori group to grab some xp (was close to pvp8 massive grind!!) there was 2 people in this group with no access to AAs (they didn't have khitai xpac) one was pvp6 and one was pvp3

But that's not the point The point is 2 players same skill lvl the one with better gear and AAs will ofc win

[Zatochi]

But that's not the point The point is 2 players same skill lvl the one with better gear and AAs will ofc win

nobody said something against that. But we are playing a game here. if both are on the excat same level, nobody should win. is that what you want? then stop playing any game with hit rating, crit rating and so on. stop playing cod or battlefield, stop playing league of legends, stop playing ANY game.

because i dont know any game where not one of theose 2 guys will win. in one game due to luck because he critted first, in another due to better gear.

[ViolentLeonidas]

nobody said something against that. But we are playing a game here. if both are on the excat same level, nobody should win. is that what you want? then stop playing any game with hit rating, crit rating and so on. stop playing cod or battlefield, stop playing league of legends, stop playing ANY game.

because i dont know any game where not one of theose 2 guys will win. in one game due to luck because he critted first, in another due to better gear.

Sorry to say so, but aoc is still one of the game where you can beat anyone if you are skilled enough as long as you dont fight in green gear against T4.

So no you cant beat anyone if you are skilled because when the 2 skilled players meet gear and AA will win
but I think I know what you trying to say! if you have skill in aoc pvp you can beat that trash player who has high aa and high gear

But you said ANYONE
My kinda aoc pvp would be a Player vs a Player equal gear aa
Then the system team can tweak classes and such in unchained pvp

[Zatochi]

skilled enough means obviously more skilled then your oppenent which makes your example invalid against my argument. i was NEVER EVER talking about 2 guys one the same skilllevel.

and if you want pvp where everyone has same gear aa and stuff, stop playing mmos... you wont find this in such games. mmos does mean char progression and gear. even shooter uses that these days days because it makes the players to play the game way longer then without it.

CS was the first game introducing this (kind of) in shooter games and look how popular it was and still is after all these years. and now mmos should stop this? Why? charprogression clearly is something a big bunch of players like a lot. And that was never the problem of aoc pvp....

[Suctum]

Skill level is completely absent from the game. All you need is gear and a reasonable amount of the right AA's to out play anyone.

If your going to say that's not true, look at how often people grind t4 and memory clouds vs. how many people are grinding pvp levels for gear. Look at all the average players with t4 that top minis, nothing like dying to a keyboard turner or clicker who can stand still and hit 2 or 3 instant abilities.

The game for me is simply not fun anymore, all it is who has equal amount or more t4 and who can 2-3 shot who. There is no skill in shattering/pen/tts and nearly 1 shotting someone, or a demo in t4 who's Shockstrike is hitting no less than 2k non crit and WoF is doing 800+ a hit, or a sin that can stealth/facestab/gc and bomb in 1.5 seconds and again nearly 1 shot a cloth or light armor...or conqs running around with 300% weapon damage in brute spec

Before, I used to bitch about canceling and molding, but at least the players doing it had some skill. I did not mind dying to getting outplayed. Now, you simply die to being out geared. Before anyone says I should just grind t4 gear, wait a minute. I grinded to pvp 10 excuslively through mini games. I should not have to grind pve to stay competitive when t3 pvp armor should be the best for what it is for.

I totally agree with Khramps, but nothing will change so let the t4 muppet generation take over. I'm through grinding everything but pvp to stay competitive for pvp.

[KullOfValusia]

Skill level is completely absent from the game. All you need is gear and a reasonable amount of the right AA's to out play anyone.

If your going to say that's not true, look at how often people grind t4 and memory clouds vs. how many people are grinding pvp levels for gear. Look at all the average players with t4 that top minis, nothing like dying to a keyboard turner or clicker who can stand still and hit 2 or 3 instant abilities.

The game for me is simply not fun anymore, all it is who has equal amount or more t4 and who can 2-3 shot who. There is no skill in shattering/pen/tts and nearly 1 shotting someone, or a demo in t4 who's Shockstrike is hitting no less than 2k non crit and WoF is doing 800+ a hit, or a sin that can stealth/facestab/gc and bomb in 1.5 seconds and again nearly 1 shot a cloth or light armor...or conqs running around with 300% weapon damage in brute spec

Before, I used to bitch about canceling and molding, but at least the players doing it had some skill. I did not mind dying to getting outplayed. Now, you simply die to being out geared. Before anyone says I should just grind t4 gear, wait a minute. I grinded to pvp 10 excuslively through mini games. I should not have to grind pve to stay competitive when t3 pvp armor should be the best for what it is for.

I totally agree with Khramps, but nothing will change so let the t4 muppet generation take over. I'm through grinding everything but pvp to stay competitive for pvp.

It's a lot harder to grind to PvP 10 then just happen to bring an alt toon and grab a couple of weapons that drop from mem cloud. Most guilds if they can do most of t3 can do the first three bosses in t4 no problem, at least from what I discovered. Even numpty's pug groups can do the first 3 t4 bosses.

At this point, I actually don't understand why they can't just edit the PvP weapons/armor. Apparently, its quite literally change x number to y as seen on what's being done on the unchained loot. I suspect this is more about money then it is about balance (most of PvP is free) and if they de-incentivize T4 gear by making PvP gear halfway decent then people don't really have to sub anymore. This will all get fixed with PvP unchained which I'm almost sure will be sub-access only.

[Okkie]

Ppl who ask for bringing back the skill in this game is a clear sign for me, that there is a person who actually dont have skill.

Sorry to say so, but aoc is still one of the game where you can beat anyone if you are skilled enough as long as you dont fight in green gear against T4.

What?? You're stating the obvious. Of course a skilled player vs non skilled player at current state of the game, a skilled player would have the upper hand.

The problem isn't about whether or not players have skills to beat another.

The problem is that the imbalanced and dumbbing down of the combat etc makes "UN-skilled" players god like with the correct gear/aa. You don't NEED skill anymore. That is the problem.

Bringing skill back, means bringing in less cheesy abilities less easy mode combos etc for more fast paced pvp action.

So really what you're saying is already the obvious and has nothing to do with the op.

[-Khramps-]

Reading all the comments minus 2 of them, which are original players from Tyranny and actually played during the "real skill-based" combat era, you can easily see the direction of where this game went and why hardcore pvp players are completely absent from this game.

Even if Funcom made a voting poll on PVP and it's direction, it wouldn't stand as true, simply because it is obvious that no hardcore PVP players play this game anymore. Reading these comments use to make me "angry" and "upset" but now it's just laughable. There are so many bad players in this game, it's actually sad now.

They don't even know what is even requires in a skill-based game anymore, simply because they have relied on grinding for gear and press 1-5 on their keyboard rotation over and over again.

People mocking "insta-cast" cc's is the first sign of noob and I am trying to say that in the nicest way possible. I have read many comments of players saying the game is "faster" now and players have "mastered" their classes when in fact it's the exact opposite, because these players have nothing to contrast to. It's like seeing players like Balacai or Rydah posting videos of themselves beating up bottom feeders in mini games and considering themselves masters of the game. The true masters of the game have left and I am quite positive even more amazing players don't even attempt to play this game because it doesn't offer any type of skill reward or ranking system that allows individual and team based competition.

AoC, promotes noobish behavior. Let me explain

1. Guards attack you in Khesh on PVP servers that were originally meant to be for PVP. Yes, that's how much the noobs vote had overruled the pvp servers

2. All classes were revamped to benefit WoW like players who preferred to click, rather then macro and added abilities like bubbles and absorbs.

3. Kill to Death ratio was removed to prevent "hurt feelings" to players who had negative ratios, so this would promote more pub style play.

4. Right-click Duel and Arena Rankings have been ignored since launch and not a single competitive aspect of PVP has been considered for implementation.

5. AA feats and Gear was promoted as the iwin direction as opposed to individual skill.

6. Combo Cancelling was removed, cc's were nerfed to be slower and dumbed down so players could hit the opposing player while they "stand still", making for an easier target and less mobility to keep the pace down. Whether people see it this way or not, Combo Cancelling was in fact another skill based layer to the game.

The directions of all MMO's are about catering to casual gamers, which is obviously the goal at Funcom right now. The problem is, AoC was a niche game that tried to turn casual over the course of 2 years while selling out on their main audience. What you have left over is pretty much the community that has always cried for gear, rp and pve and crafting and will never be happy.

All that is required in keeping pvp players happy is, ZERO GRIND, MAXIMUM REPLAY VALUE that includes, Arena's, Large PVP Battlegrounds based on a huge ceiling curve. But I guess that's just too much to ask for over the course of what? 4 years now? Pathetic.

[Usedtissue]

All that is required in keeping pvp players happy is, ZERO GRIND, MAXIMUM REPLAY VALUE that includes, Arena's, Large PVP Battlegrounds based on a huge ceiling curve. But I guess that's just too much to ask for over the course of what? 5 years now? Pathetic.

Fixed for you

I agree 100% the recipe for pvp is as follows

1. Have little or no grind
2. Keep skill based mechanics
3. Keep it fast and engaging
4. Stop making classes easy
5. Make it competitive and brutal

This game will continue to die until Funcom realizes that there is no point of making a PVE oriented game when the MMO market is absolutely filled with better options. Instead it would have been best for them to focus to be a niche brutal pvp game