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Thread: The art of tanking

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by cins View Post
    Also there's something that personally disturbs me very much in Secret World, which is extreme focus on dps at high end pve. Over there, playerbase seem to consider having enough firepower to defeat a boss before he/she/it can even start to use their interesting abilities to be a good thing (which is dumb). Look at all the "X boss done in 30 seconds" videos on youtube. Does anyone really think "burn down Favored of Louhi before he wakes up" was the more entertaining way of winning?
    Protip: Anyone whose answer is yes should get their head checked.
    I think burning Louhi down in the first minute was the best way to do that fight. Regardless of whether you burn him through the shield or kill the phylacteries, it's a boring fight with no interesting mechanics and no challenge, so might as well get it over with quickly. At least then there's some challenge for the tanks to hold on and for the DPS to maximize their potential. Once his shield goes up all that tanking involves is 2 semi competent guards who can use irritate at the right time.

    I would argue that anybody who thinks having the whole raid beat on a stationary boss or having a bunch of rangers and casters standing out of range and nuking phylacteries for 5 minutes is interesting needs their head examined.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petridish View Post
    Or just re-balance / re-think VOM entirely. I think we can all agree that, currently, it is way over the top. I have a DT and I would still like to see it nerfed (along with other changes if nerfing VOM makes it necessary with respect to rotation and ability synergy).
    The problem with just nerfing VoM is that DTs currently actually need all the dps that VoM provides to be able to tank effectively.

    DT have limited ways of generating extra hate (especially compared to Guard or Conq) so they need high dps to maintain aggro.

    DTs have little in the ways of extra defenses or self-healing. What they do have is health taps, but for the taps to be effective they need to do great dps. Without that they would have trouble staying alive in the harder fights.


    Sure, VoM is a bit too powerful currently, but if it was nerfed more than marginally then DTs would need other adjustments as well or the class would quickly change from overpowered to underpowered.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikT View Post
    The problem with just nerfing VoM is that DTs currently actually need all the dps that VoM provides to be able to tank effectively.

    DT have limited ways of generating extra hate (especially compared to Guard or Conq) so they need high dps to maintain aggro.

    DTs have little in the ways of extra defenses or self-healing. What they do have is health taps, but for the taps to be effective they need to do great dps. Without that they would have trouble staying alive in the harder fights.


    Sure, VoM is a bit too powerful currently, but if it was nerfed more than marginally then DTs would need other adjustments as well or the class would quickly change from overpowered to underpowered.
    I completely agree with you. But look at this coming from the perspective of a Barb or Sin or yes even a Guard. As a DT you do more DPS, more aggro, more survivability then any of the classes that are SUPPOSED to be the best in these areas. You're like a 4x4 pickup truck that can also win Formula One races and operate as a space shuttle for the international space station.

    This is a cooperative game where the classes are constantly mixed/supporting each other to finish a 6man or raid. When you have a class that can do the specialized jobs of other classes better, then you have effectively nerfed them. You have nerfed the barb,sin,guardian etc. by buffing/fixing DTs. This is the fundamental problem with the DT class.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    I completely agree with you. But look at this coming from the perspective of a Barb or Sin or yes even a Guard. As a DT you do more DPS, more aggro, more survivability then any of the classes that are SUPPOSED to be the best in these areas.
    The problem with this post, and most of the comments in this thread is that everyone seems to be assuming almost every DT in game is at this same OP level of being the best at everything (DPS, aggro, survivability, etc). To me it seems more like you are only talking about the top 5% or so of the full T4 DTs. Most DTs in game, even those with T4 gear, don't all play at that level.

    Having played this game since launch and being in a guild that farms T4, I have only ever seen one DT that comes close (but still not near your extreme) to what is described in this thread as an uber tank that out dpses all classes while pretty much solo-tanking the raid boss.

    I've heard a lot about full T4 DTs solo tanking Zodiac and topping the parse, but I have never seen this. That leads me to believe that the complaints are about a few isolated DTs that perform as statistical outliers.

    From what I see, a good Barb/Sin easily out perform a good DT in terms of dps. A good Guard/Conq can also easily match agro with a good DT.

    By good I mean rather above average, capable of completing most encounters in the game, but not OMG WTFHAX!
    Last edited by tapwater; 4th November 2013 at 17:04.

  5. #35

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    While the trifecta of a DT topping dmg, heals, and dmg taken on a parse does rarely happen and only in specific fights, DTs being in top 5 of each of these categories is common place.

    It's even worse in k6. DT easily tops parse in many k6 with just khitai gear and with competent and geared people in his group.
    Baneric / Munok / Johnkruk / Tomjones / Elgranorgo

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  6. #36

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    It's in any situation where the boss is not constantly moving and doesn't have ultra high magic mitigation...which is as the OP stated 90% of the fights in the game. If the DT can't grab aggro its no big loss as he's still pumping out enormous damage. If a guard can't grab aggro then he might as well stand in the corner because he then brings nothing to the table.

  7. #37

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    hey look at that, a Guardian is indeed useful/better in tanking terms in only a handful of encounters in AoC :


    T4: Imp,Emperor(boss and illusions),Sadur,Strom,LuZhi/Keaira
    T3:Gyas 2nd phase,Louhi,Demo form of Keeper,Thoth-Amon
    T2:Stinky,Succubus and Incubus,Seruah,Chatha,Yaremka,Leviathus
    T1:well i wont bother

    6mans:Flame,Pagoda 2nd phase,Pillars(second especially boss),Abyss,Necropolis,Vile Nativity(first-last boss),Ai District(all bosses),Tian District(assasin,drunk guy),AoK,Ardashir Fort(first-third boss),Sepulcher of the Wyrm(second boss) , Coils (especially the hardest fourth and fifth bosses) and the list go on and on......

    nerf guardians ffs!!!!!
    Last edited by sardanapal; 4th November 2013 at 18:33.
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    Dyssebeia 80 DT,Polyterpi 80 Conq,Marleficus 80 ToS,Klymeni 80 Sin

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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sardanapal View Post
    hey look at that, a Guardian is indeed useful/better in tanking terms in only a handful of encounters in AoC :


    T4: Imp,Emperor(boss and illusions),Sadur,Strom,LuZhi/Keaira
    T3:Gyas 2nd phase,Louhi,Demo form of Keeper,Thoth-Amon
    T2:Stinky,Succubus and Incubus,Seruah,Chatha,Yaremka,Leviathus
    T1:well i wont bother

    6mans:Flame,Pagoda 2nd phase,Pillars(second especially boss),Abyss,Necropolis,Vile Nativity(first-last boss),Ai District(all bosses),Tian District(assasin,drunk guy),AoK,Ardashir Fort(first-third boss),Sepulcher of the Wyrm(second boss) , Coils (especially the hardest fourth and fifth bosses) and the list go on and on......

    nerf guardians ffs!!!!!
    Every single encounter you just mentioned can be just as effectively tanked by a DT or even a conq. HOWEVER, every single encounter you have NOT mentioned a DT will be FAR better for the encounter with minimum headache for the healers. *Further even IF you were not tanking you are still adding to the raid through your better then sins/barbs DPS.* If a guard isn't tanking he might as well go afk.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    Every single encounter you just mentioned can be just as effectively tanked by a DT or even a conq. HOWEVER, every single encounter you have NOT mentioned a DT will be FAR better for the encounter with minimum headache for the healers. *Further even IF you were not tanking you are still adding to the raid through your better then sins/barbs DPS.* If a guard isn't tanking he might as well go afk.
    I know you're like halftrolling and halfserious, but do you really think its fun to make a fool out of yourself everytime? Sure dts need tweaking, but if you cant keep up with dts (generally) in T4, or in Hardmodes, You obviously have a L2P issue, I can teach you how to play, just contact me ingame, I can offer you a 2hour lecture per day, if it stops your qq in the end, its worth it
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    I know you're like halftrolling and halfserious, but do you really think its fun to make a fool out of yourself everytime? Sure dts need tweaking, but if you cant keep up with dts (generally) in T4, or in Hardmodes, You obviously have a L2P issue, I can teach you how to play, just contact me ingame, I can offer you a 2hour lecture per day, if it stops your qq in the end, its worth it
    lol, I can count on one hand every guard that ever played this game that can even begin to keep up with me. This will just be embarrassing for you, let's not go there.

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