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Thread: The art of tanking

  1. #61


    Quote Originally Posted by Caudilloo View Post
    Be that as it may, I do not accept or respect him as a skilled guardian.

    I like most of his videos, he most likely played the game more then me, and I'm sure he is a nice player and person but he simply plays his guardian wrong. (build, rotation, AA's; basically everything has been said in this topic)

    It's like me feating my barbarian full berserker/general, using reaver stance without pressing and decisive and then coming to the forum to make a post that I can't keep up the dps with the other rogues.

    This however is not a barbarian problem, (dear lord don't start that discussion again) but my own issue of me not mastering my class.
    Making a post on the forums claiming your class is gimped while the underlying problem is you all the time makes Crom laugh.

    It also makes us a bit sad...
    You spread lies about a class (the same as RingOfSet, but in a more sane manner I'll give you that) which is perfectly viable for ALL endgame content, only because you did not evolve with the guardian when the game demanded it.
    The Guardian is easy to play, hard to master. Always has been and I hope it always will be. If you are not one of the lucky few that masters it, yet you discourage other people to play the guardian (and maybe new guardians will even quit the game when they look on this forum for advice but in stead see a 'veteran' complain about how weak his class is) then that makes me laugh and sad and even a bit angry at the same time. And that is how every person that loves this game and loves the guardian should feel at such a huge display of ignorance.
    LOL, give me a break! This isn't neurosurgery, you're not trying to land something on mars either, you're right its one of the hardest classes to master but it's not THAT hard.

    And Crom PvE is seriously lacking.. they are not imaginative/creative when making toons I bet most of their players are like "Duhh well so I tank ..I wear the plate and spec the dread right?" I bet none of the conqs over there don't even know what weapon switching is... think about it another way..maybe Henryx is speccing the RIGHT WAY and every other guard (including myself) desperately trying to keep up with aggro from DTs are speccing the wrong way. Developers aren't gods they make mistakes too when they fiddle with the game.

  2. #62


    If you actually spent your time in game instead of trolling you'd know everything about this I presume. It's not other way around. Trolling doesn't increase your knowledge with certain classes.

  3. #63


    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    So what are the causes of this problem?
    1. T4 gear:
    T4 gears generate a big gap between Dt/conq 's dps and guardian's hate tools, I remember when I am doing T4 progression, my guard can handle the fight with DT/conq very well, but after we down zodiac - entity the thing changed. Dt can health tap enough to make himself alive for his own, even his tap is not enough he can still use a dread as buffer to heal up full health and repeat. imo T4 gears should be turn down abit.
    Not really, imo the real deal is the power surge in dps provided 3 year ago by the RoTG extension, especially the fact you can stack crit rating on helm+chest+legs+gloves+weapons+AA (add to the top pots).
    Too much crit rating in this game have given some unexpected impact on such things like Arcane Marauder, Lotus Overcharge and ofc VoM. Way back when you can only have 10/12% crit chance, theses stuff were much more balanced.
    T4 gear only makes this more visible.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    2. Encounter design:
    Why people think DT/conq are better than guard is mainly due to the encounter design.
    Oh yes, but well, it is an old problem way back in T3 when you jump from boss with almost not protection to boss with tons of protection. Same for T4, but hopefully they fixed that (that Zodiac fight w/o protection was just silly).
    As for the boss with events, i still think there's enough to make the guard competitive. Aggro resets still favores the guard (esp Jugg ezmode) who always have a taunt or taunt combo up. So i think there's a decent ratio of tank n' spank bosses/event or aggro resets ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    3. AA/buff:
    I think everyone knows what is vom, and it is one of the cause. It gives DT so much sustain dps while guard can only hold a short period initial aggro with STA. I am not saying you must use STA, but if you use counterweight, you lose massive survivability and...why not play a DT/conq if you want dps??
    It is a debate old as the release of RoTG : VoM users using it to encounter StA aggro lockers guards and vice-versa. I never cared enough to know which is the better AA aggrowise since i've seen so much stupid things from the both side in aggrowhoring behaviours. Both are really good and now with Battlefield commander we have a third challenger, so i guess it is somewhat "balanced".

    Quote Originally Posted by henryabccba View Post
    The another problem is the guadian's buffs, the usefulness of guardian is definitely his short cd group dmg buff call to arm/battle cry, guardian grants the firepower to group mates and keep turtle/little hate increase for himself. It makes the situation worse cos guadian gives DT the power to do more dps while he is still doing retard dps, it is a really big contradiction, I want aggro but I give you more buffs to dps lol.
    I've rarely though about that, but you're probably right. Maybe make the dps bonus only for people not in def stance.

  4. #64


    Stall is fairly useless for continuous agro gen in terms of s&b..its a little "secret" that most noobie guards don't know about. Slotting counterweight/reprisal even on s&b does FAR more sustained aggro. But A.) its harder to maintain the insane button management if you go this way. B.) You lose one of two "oh crap" buttons.

  5. #65


    I'm not sure what was the initial point of the OP.

    So i'll just add that i've played my guardian for 4 years.
    I also played it as main character for 1 full year when my first guild was progressing through T2, at that time when Ahazu was a challenge and the rite of passage of any solid tank.
    It is now full AA and full T4, and frankly i have never had that negative feeling so many people seem to share.

    At every single time in AoC, there has been encounters where one tank class was more favoured than the 2 others.
    For instance, for a long time, tanking Ahazu had been a poleguard duty, because it was much harder and almot impossible with other soldiers in regular raids.

    Actually, the 3 first years of AoC has been the golden age of guardians, they were just better at everything and were the best tanks for every single encounter in the game, no exception whatsoever.
    Guard was the tank, while dt and conq were respectively DS provder and "offtank" (old conqs who used to mt 4-5 years ago will get the quotes).
    DT was believed to be gimped with low aggro, conq had good hate burst but lacked sturdiness.

    Then khitai came out and dt got some love and actual enconters where they could also shine.
    A bit later, conq was nerfed several times, it lost around 15% damage output and at the same time lost the benefit of comboskipping, which was a dramatic blow, which leaded the class to be totally abandonned by everyone except a handful of die hard players.

    At some point on Crom, i remember seeing only Tronkita still tanking, and that was it. I recall being very surprised once because i ended up with him in a group and that had been the first time in like 6 months that's i had been with another conq in the same group. This had become an exceptionnal occasion.

    Nowadays, every soldier can tank everything, no exception.
    Every soldier can use the same gear from khitai/t3.5/t4.
    Every soldier also got several raid encounters which are designed in its favour and where it can shine.
    On top of my head i can think of :
    DT : Arbanus/Zodiac/basilisk (or any slow/low hitting encounter)
    Guard : Louhi/TA/Emperor/Zaal (or any hard hitting enconter)
    Conq : Imp/Archfiend/emperor (it's just so easy as conq, solo tanking the imp is effortless, and controlling aggro on archfiend is perfect)

    So i believe that since the conq revamp and for the first time in AoC, we have now the 3 soldiers on almost equal footing tanking wise.

  6. #66


    I main a dt and can hit the extremes of 2500+ dps while tanking.

    I would like to see 2 sets of VoM buffs.

    1 set of tank related in defensive stance.

    1 set in offense related in frenzy stance.

    Nerf our dps a bit, increase taps to compensate.

    Give blood for aids something that AIDS the tank like a threat modifier in defensive stance. That way, dt's will have a reason to use something other than life leech/asfof.

    Or could make current VoM only availabe in frenzy, give us a new VoM AA that works in defensive.

    Bottom line is DT's in good gear are boring. nothing to the class. Spam combos with the right feat spec and you win. Take away our "one AA to rule them all" and add in CHOICE.

    I spent about 5 minutes thinking these up based on my experience, I know they arent perfect but its more than I have seen from any other dt's.

    (also be respectful to Henry you euros, he is making a point that guardians are pigeon holed towards a single feat spec and dont have much choice in their playstyles due to other tank class factors, his comments are not about how good guards CAN be)
    Last edited by Thunderclese; 5th November 2013 at 14:35.

  7. #67


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderclese View Post

    (also be respectful to Henry you euros, he is making a point that guardians are pigeon holed towards a single feat spec and dont have much choice in their playstyles due to other tank class factors, his comments are not about how good guards CAN be)
    Actually the person who is criticizing his play-style the most is a US player so it's not the "EUROS" mainly. I don't think henry is taking any offense or anyone is meaning to offend so I don't see any room for requested "respect" as "discussion" is not disrespectful by itself. I like henry's videos btw.

    But if you mean we have to respect him because of who he is that is sheepish. Just like if you expect everyone to cover-up for a war veteran or not bring up their wrong doing out of respect for what they did before. It's a phenomenon that is plaguing humanity, respecting someone for a single or some aspects of their lives and turning a blind eye on everything else they do/believe, yes you guessed it right like giving too much credit to politicians, clerics etc. the thing sheepish people do.

  8. #68


    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    If you all want me to dust off my old account and unleash the beast we need to make an appropriate place/time to do this.

    Lets make it an event.

    Time: Saturday 9.11.2013 at 00:00 UTC

    Place: Onyx Chambers

    Mob: Scaleskin Brute - Low enough damage so healer is not needed, enough hitpoints for the fight to last long enough that the who has the higher aggro can be established.

    • Best of 3
    • Winner is the tank that holds aggro when the mob dies
    • No CCs allowed
    • Goad, Goad Mob and FE is not allowed.
    • Contestants will not be grouped with anyone else
    • Contestants can use any gear, AA and feats they want
    • All Food and potions allowed
    • Both contestants must be geared to survive the fight, death is automatic loss even if you had locked aggro
    • Mob is pulled by a 3rd tank

    All guards are allowed to join in, if many wants in we will set up an bracket system and make sure you get seeded in against one of the best RingOfSet. If only a few we will match everyone against eachother.

    Everyone can spectate on my twitch channel, results and combat logs will be posted to the forum after the event.

    If you accept the challenge ringofset i will set it up.

    If ringofset do not accept but you find the idea intresting and would like to measure you manhood against other guards, send me a tell and we can see if we cant set it up anyways(but probable at a more euro friendly time).
    I am Stian ingame...

  9. #69

  10. #70


    I heard RingOfSet was the first MMO...
    Strategos of Immortal Souls

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