joel about the possible buff to pvp weapons

[Mathieulombardi]

The failure of sirloin's hard to shake off. I would say give the new guy some slack. Inbalance in weapons and gear between pvp and pve is just minor in today's pvp game.

[Okkie]

This has so much truth in it I wouldn't be surprised if they edit that out before others read it and it dawns on them. Why has the PVP community been so "bad" to the PVEers? Well because no content = ton of time to make your own content.... Aka dragging baskilisk in to KK to kill people in town... Aka spawn lvl 80 quest mobs on tortage, aka killing lvl 30s on you 80 just to hear the QQ and be entertained.... Aka pad camping the sh*t out of anyone and everyone in sight due to boredom...... Aka blocking the PVEers from getting the Halloween quest at the trader and causing GM's to step in and move the players out of the way... (hella funny I might add)

Ever camped a whole raid infront of T2? We've done it several times.

[Suctum]

Ever camped a whole raid infront of T2? We've done it several times.

Depending on how bad the raid is you only need 1 or 2 people to kill them...a full group is overkill.

As for the weapons, meh. Not only are the weapons outdated, but so is the armor. The only people who really benefit from PvP armor are tanks and poms, and even then you need to be pvp 7+ and have a pretty big investment on tokens, badges, and time. Bori warrior or purest (minis, world pvp only) still takes a crap load of hours, days, and months at a minimum to reach those levels.

I think Joel realizes the whole system needs a rework, rather than just a marginal update to the weapons which will make all the pvers cry someone has just as good as them. Gear is the only edge pvers have, but they are the largest segment of the population so no sh1t they get their way. Just how it is. So how do you rework an entire system that does not benefit pvers and puts them at a disadvantage to a minority population...

You say your working on it and keep on releasing dungeons and higher tiered pve gear...or they actually might work on it. Who knows anymore at this point, although Joel has been more honest than anyone else so far. Lets see what he does before the years up, so far though no PvP updates for 2013 though, although this Vehl guy on Fury seems to make his own lol.

[Erock25]

I think Joel realizes the whole system needs a rework, rather than just a marginal update to the weapons which will make all the pvers cry someone has just as good as them. Gear is the only edge pvers have, but they are the largest segment of the population so no sh1t they get their way. Just how it is. So how do you rework an entire system that does not benefit pvers and puts them at a disadvantage to a minority population...

What are you talking about? There is literally not one signle pve'r who would get upset at PVP weapons (in current form with PVP only stats on them) being more powerful in PVP than PVE weapons.

[Petridish]

Oh yea i'd bet you'd be going apeshit on Joel if for 4 years there were no PVE content update and when there is a slight announcement about a possible change to PVE that would benefit you guys the GD will tell you its very hard to do like adding a new item hard.


But hey its easy to judge others and question why they always complain when you're sitting comfortably in your dungeons, with full support for the past 5 years.

No, I wouldn't be 'going apeshit on Joel' ... because he wasn't in charge for the entire period of time you have been 'neglected'.

I say again, you do not know the state of the codebase. You do not know how hard *any* change to it is. Deal with it, sunshine.

And stop whinging about PvE ... it's getting old.

[Suctum]

What are you talking about? There is literally not one signle pve'r who would get upset at PVP weapons (in current form with PVP only stats on them) being more powerful in PVP than PVE weapons.

You don't think so? The pver's won't pvp without close to or full T4 gear, they get a few kills and talk some sh1t when they have the best gear available. I can name 2 -3 dozen people in regular minis that fit that description without having to stop to think...and that was before the merge. I know you know the people I'm talking about...

Considering so many of them have gotten comfortable relying on that gear to pull through you don't think that group of players would be mad if suddenly the pvp gear was just as good if not better and now their edge is gone?

Maybe not, who knows. I still think people would cry if pvp gear was equal to top tiered pve gear in pvp. Almost every major change has been born out of mass qq- pvers already have the best weapons available, and there is not enough players that grinded out pvp levels through actual pvp to get enough qq to ever make a change. There's probably less than 50 players a server who want the change anyways, the rest are quite happy to bring blue-geared alts to cloud farms for free weapons that are instantly better...

[KullOfValusia]

Somewhere along the way the game became very PvE oriented..I don't know why but apparently management thought it was for the best. I don't believe Joel will do anything with PvP weapons because Unchained PvP will come out where none of that will matter.

[Petridish]

Maybe not, who knows. I still think people would cry if pvp gear was equal to top tiered pve gear in pvp.

I hope not ... I would actually expect it to be the case. Top tier PvP gear *should be* the best-in-slot items for PvP.

Doesn't this discussion about buffing the L10 PvP gear just delay the problem though? What happens when T5 PvE comes out (if that ever happens)? Does the L10 PvP gear get buffed up again? Why should it?

Do you honestly believe that the PvE weapon situation is due to whinging? I would've thought it is simply due to the progression on that side of the game ... i.e. new tier implies new items, better than the last, to keep us all going on the grind train?

At the risk of being trolled into oblivion, I tend to agree with RingOfSet here ... the only workable solution is to remove the gear issue from PvP altogether and turn it back into the skill based game that you all want it to be.

PvE can continue on the tiered progression system ... PvP just doesn't utilise the same system (and nor should it).

[Suctum]

I hope not ... I would actually expect it to be the case. Top tier PvP gear *should be* the best-in-slot items for PvP.

Doesn't this discussion about buffing the L10 PvP gear just delay the problem though? What happens when T5 PvE comes out (if that ever happens)? Does the L10 PvP gear get buffed up again? Why should it?

Do you honestly believe that the PvE weapon situation is due to whinging? I would've thought it is simply due to the progression on that side of the game ... i.e. new tier implies new items, better than the last, to keep us all going on the grind train?

At the risk of being trolled into oblivion, I tend to agree with RingOfSet here ... the only workable solution is to remove the gear issue from PvP altogether and turn it back into the skill based game that you all want it to be.

Meh, the best weapons and gear for 8/12 classes is pve gear. If you can get t4 on a sin, ranger, necro, demo, barb, tos, shammy, or hox and instantly be more competitive than grinding to pvp 6 or 7 (which takes much longer than getting raid gear), why would you waste the time to get pvp levels or grind for the gear when you can happily show up to one t4 and 1 t3(weapons/accessories) and not screw around with trying to pvp in blue gear?

The only classes to benefit from pvp armor are tanks, poms, and possibly a shammy/barb, but look at the huge dps gap between a sin in t4 gear vs pvp gear, or a caster, it's not even comparable.

If all of a sudden pvp armor was on par with t4 armor you don't think there would be qq? I would imagine there would be from the general population, just like there was when t3 pvp armor first came out, but then as people starting getting t3 pve weapons, you saw more of a transition to pve items getting better and better for pvp. Now it's way out of control. You simply have to accept that to be competitive in pvp you need to do your share of pve, that's just how the game is now.

[Petridish]

I totally agree with what you are saying man, at least so far as the current state of the game is. I was arguing that that shouldn't be the case. Doing top-tier PvE should get you awesome PvE gear, no doubt about it, but it is disingenuous to also make that gear 'the best' in PvP. Because it leads to the situation a lot are unhappy with i.e. PvPers feeling that they 'need' to do PvE to get these items so that they can stay competitive.

There's going to be QQ regardless man, but its whether the QQ is warranted or not that's the question. I, personally, don't have a problem with them buffing the PvP items, but I also feel that that's a bad road to go down in general, because it's a never ending job (refer to what I said before about when T5/T6 comes out).

The only way to fix the problem is by removing the gear from the equation, or by addressing the itemization so that PvE items *can never be better* in PvP than PvP items.