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Thread: Game is too hard. Make it easier

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    So, what makes a player an "elitist"? Is it being experienced and geared, or is it being an 4$$hole towards other players? Is it having the interest in the game to focus enough and watch for spell effects and debuffs and take appropriate actions? Is it by dedicating enough time to learn tactics before you go in-game and do the dungeons/raids? Just curious what people mean by the term when they use it.
    There is a lot of difference between an Elitist Player and a Veteran player.

    In the example you use, a Elitist will assume that everyone knows the fight and charge in without asking if everyone knows what to do, while a veteran will ask the group just to be sure.

    As another example, an Elitist can't be bothered helping out new players and will just run with people they know are geared and skilled while a veteran will help new players out and doesn't mind running some older content occasionally to assist newcomers.

    I think the prime example of an elitist player though is linking loot from an all guild raid in global.

  2. #32

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    I've had a quick read and I have 2 things to say:

    1. Grind is one of the #1 tools of MMOs to keep you comming back. Especially if you don't bring out new conent every few months. (and even then it's grinding, you're just grinding different stuff)
    If you can get everything in a month you won't appreciate any of it and you won't have the feeling of achievment --> no attachemnt to the character / game.

    2. You say make things easier to retain new players?
    Assuming this is correct, answer me this, do you think AoC would gain new paying customers faster than it would lose existing ones?
    This game does not create enough new content or even promote itself enough to create a new player base.
    Face it, the best thing this game can do is hold on to the people they got and hope they bring in some friends.
    Pontuz - HoX
    Ponthus - Demo
    Pondtus - DT
    + plenty of alts like everyone else

  3. #33

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    Is the game is too hard because the mechanics are too complex or because there are too many gear checks ?

    I for one like the fact that the newest instance, the Coil of Ubbah Kan, is low in terms of gear check while being at the same time very rich in terms of mechanics.
    I would not like it to be changed.

    On the other hand, the Custodian of Yoth in the Sepulcher of the Wyrm does have a ridiculous gear check, plain and simple, which i believe is rather uninspired and does hurt the instance itself.
    Reducing those gear checks would be all that's needed to improve accessibility for new players.

    That being said, accessibility is not about difficulty entireky, it's more about how easy it is for a new player to hook up with the game community.
    So i believe the solution to that issue about new players having a hard time in AoC does not lie in Funcom's hand, but is more of a community responsibility.

    That's why new players have a much easier time on Crom, not because the server is more populated, but because veterans do join newb groups, form raids and groups and invite new players without much discrimination.

    Now smile, you don't have to rely on Funcom to change anything, you can just make it happen yourself on your own server.
    How wonderful.

  4. #34

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    PvE wise i don't think the game is too hard.

    But lots of people are now use to go through most instances with too much gear, especially tanks, and get everything done easy without any difficulty to farm a third khitai set. So the goal isn't really to achieve something, since you've already done it hundreds of times before, but to grind tokens.
    Personnally when i do inis in PuGs i'm here for the gear, when i do some in guild i'm here for the challenge and the fun. I guess i'm not the only one in that case. And i don't think that's being elitist.

    That being, new players really need to find the appropriate guild to progress because going there in full PuGs won't work since the expectations won't be compatible. Or at the very least inform the players on what the groupe will look like when they spam global.
    When someone is spamming global with "KK HM 5/6 need healer". There's no effort, there you know that 90% of the time it's going to be a grind fest groupe with minimal communication and /kick or /leave when someone ****s up. While something slightly more elaborate such as, i don't know, "KK tour 5/6 need a healer, gear and experience appreciated, good humour and patience expected !", well you clearly see you won't be dealing with the same kind of groupe atmosphere.
    So if i join a newbie groupe who spamed a minimalistic sentence on global i'll kind of feel cheated. While if i join a groupe who spammed a fun ad on global i'm happy to help and know what to expect.

    So for new players, i believe the manner you join pug groupes and create them is as importante as gearing up if not more. Because the instance aren't actually that hard ! I've played a bit a newbie offlined leveled guard with gear bought from the trader (not the expensive cultural gear) and started main tanking easy instances. I can say at least Necropolis, Vortex, Yun Rau, Fire boss and Kun Whu can be done with blue geared tanks and normal heal and dpsers. By the time you've done those a couple of times you should get at least some decent Khitai blue gear some more AA and maybe an epic or two. Indeed it helps when you roughly know the game mechanics but still no awesome skill is needed to achieve those.

    To sum it up:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus
    That being said, accessibility is not about difficulty entireky, it's more about how easy it is for a new player to hook up with the game community.
    Last edited by Vehl; 26th August 2013 at 10:16.
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    Nvah~ . . .

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPayne View Post
    You can't get in k6mans without purple gear (in most cases: pugs). You need rare trophies to purchase purple gear. Nobody wants to do 6man easy modes to progress. New characters need to do solo instances to gear up. It takes too long to get gear with 19 hour cooldowns on solo instances. Reduce or remove this cooldown restriction.
    This might be an issue if you are brand new on your first 80, but if you explain this to people I would think a lot of people would be helpful.

    For an alt though a lot of people don't think outside the box.

    Use your geared/aa'd 80's to improve your new fresh alts.

    Some ways include:
    -switch to new 80 before the box is broken (a lot of 6 mans have breakable boxes allowing you to do the fight on your geared 80 and then swap to new toon for the rares/purples)
    -bring in you new toon for blues (even in 6 mans where the box isn't breakable all the blues can be looted)
    -do pug t2 raids
    -moa grind as well as solo dungeon (convert moa into rare relic 1/2/3's at the mystical trader to get a decent set of khitai blues if you have no other way)
    -obtain vent details of active guilds (ask for help, you would be suprised you will probably get some)

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhiele View Post
    There is a lot of difference between an Elitist Player and a Veteran player.

    In the example you use, a Elitist will assume that everyone knows the fight and charge in without asking if everyone knows what to do, while a veteran will ask the group just to be sure.

    As another example, an Elitist can't be bothered helping out new players and will just run with people they know are geared and skilled while a veteran will help new players out and doesn't mind running some older content occasionally to assist newcomers.

    I think the prime example of an elitist player though is linking loot from an all guild raid in global.
    I think this term is superfluous and confusing.
    Too many ppl think that veteran = experienced player = top geared player = "elitist" which is ignorant and insulting.

    To simplify things to the max there are:

    2 types of players skill-wise: GOOD players and BAD players (where better gear and more xp doesn't necessarily mean a better player)

    2 types of players personality-wise: NICE players and ASS*****

    which constitutes 4 basic types: NICE GOOD player, ASS**** GOOD player, NICE BAD player and ASS**** BAD player.

    I guess this "elitist" crap means "ass**** good player".... but way too many nice good players are being called out as "elitist" by ass**** players which sometimes results in nice good player becoming more closed to the rest of the community.

  7. #37

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    Game is too hard = Yes
    Make it easier = **** that ****.

    Many remaining players are accustomed to difficulty. Making everything easier will surely lose a lot of oldies such as me while it will maybe improve newbie retention. It's a risky idea.

    What isn't a risky idea is to implement a braindead mode to all dungeons that can be done with any random group of players with zero skill/gear. Ideally, I'd let braindead modes drop items with stats equal to hardmode purples but with an unremovable bright pink glow around wearer indicating how much of a weakling he is, but I doubt that's gonna get implemented anytime soon.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aecho View Post
    I think this term is superfluous and confusing.
    Too many ppl think that veteran = experienced player = top geared player = "elitist" which is ignorant and insulting.

    To simplify things to the max there are:

    2 types of players skill-wise: GOOD players and BAD players (where better gear and more xp doesn't necessarily mean a better player)

    2 types of players personality-wise: NICE players and ASS*****

    which constitutes 4 basic types: NICE GOOD player, ASS**** GOOD player, NICE BAD player and ASS**** BAD player.

    I guess this "elitist" crap means "ass**** good player".... but way too many nice good players are being called out as "elitist" by ass**** players which sometimes results in nice good player becoming more closed to the rest of the community.
    I found the therm "Elitist" in a post which probably is now deleted (it was a reply to this post which I can't find anymore).
    The post stated that there are no "Eliters" in AoC.
    I was very surprised because, in the meaning I assign to this term, I can say that I know at least some players which belong to this category.

    I like the classification you made of players Aecho, but that's not the meaning I assign to the term.

    For me, "Elitist" is not related to beeing a BAD or GOOD player.
    It's not related to beeing NICE or ***HOLE too.

    For me is "Elitist" one player who feels to be good, indipendently from the fact that he is good or not.
    This is not necessarily bad; it becomes bad when the player feels the need to impose himself as better than others, and in general to act as an ***hole toward other players.
    So I could say for me an "Elitist" is an ***hole player who feels to be good.

    Anyway by ***hole player in this case I don't mean global spamming or flaming, or direct insulting other players (that is childish or impolite for me, not ***hole as related to an "Elitist"), or just don't help in PvE.
    The ***hole part of the "Elitist" for me is like acting as a "snob".
    I can't explain it better.

    I know some people who act like this, and they break a lot of fun in the PvE side of the game for me, and also in PvP.
    I do errors, "Elitist" don't do errors or at least feels they don't, and feel motivated to think you are a bad player since they are (or at least feel) better than you.
    I find hard to team up with people who have this kind of e-peen.
    Probably it's just my fault, it's just something that needs to be ignored, but in general I prefer friendly nice player in a group than "Elitist", even if very geared and skilled.

    Of course geared and skilled doesn't mean "Elitist"; fortunately I know much many more geared and very very skilled player who are absolutely not "Elitist".

    This is kinda offtopic, but to give an example of an "Elitist" behaviour (which is mostly only related to PvE for me), I was in a group couple of days ago where a player stated sentence:
    "Lol, no one can use CC except than me?" (It was related to use CC on Eviscerate in AoK 2nd boss btw).

    Try to analyze his sentence: what is there to lol????
    He is just trying to say that other players in group are bad or worse than him, and it's kinda "disgusting" that he is saying that ironically like that.
    That's the kind of behaviour I call "Elitist": to imply that you are better than others without saying it directly, and also implicity make joke of others.

    I just tried to explain what I mean by "Elistist", but yes I realize that you are right, it's a very confusing term.
    Last edited by Calore; 26th August 2013 at 18:00.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  9. #39

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    I wouldn't mind since I don't exactly play pve for the "challenge" (pve challenge is by definition pretty silly anyway, mobs are and will always be stupid and predictable > you repeat the same exact actions for a given encounter a few times and zing, shiny loot at your feet - only challenge is when the encounters just got released and you have to figure out tactics but that never takes long...). True story is, all pve content in this game can be done with one hand (and this is a tank speaking...).

    Really I'm not against making things easier because it could attract and retain more players (which in turns means more pvp), problem is I'm not sure it would. AoC has a terrible image, many people I talk to actually think the servers shut down long ago/or are empty/or that the game is still a buggy unplayable mess.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    I wouldn't mind since I don't exactly play pve for the "challenge" (pve challenge is by definition pretty silly anyway, mobs are and will always be stupid and predictable > you repeat the same exact actions for a given encounter a few times and zing, shiny loot at your feet - only challenge is when the encounters just got released and you have to figure out tactics but that never takes long...). True story is, all pve content in this game can be done with one hand (and this is a tank speaking...).

    Really I'm not against making things easier because it could attract and retain more players (which in turns means more pvp), problem is I'm not sure it would. AoC has a terrible image, many people I talk to actually think the servers shut down long ago/or are empty/or that the game is still a buggy unplayable mess.
    Making the game easier is not the answer. Fixing PvP is the anwser!
    You heard it here first!

    As to the rest of your post:
    There were 62-63? servers at launch. There will soon be 3, but more than likely 2 if they close B&G!
    Bugs that were here at launch are still present today.
    Many more new bugs are also in game.

    AOC earned its bad press, and since Khitai Funcom has done nothing to fix its poor image.
    Pvp in AOC is Awesome!

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