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Thread: Game is too hard. Make it easier

  1. #41

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    I don't think that the game is too hard but it certainly has a lot of grind for decent gear (for someone for has 3-4+ toons and is not a professional player with a hardcore guild that easily farms T4).
    And yes I remember how Khitai initially was with the grind, without Turan solo dungeons and Refuge and how it got "way too easy" after a while.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by lok502 View Post
    I don't think that the game is too hard but it certainly has a lot of grind for decent gear (for someone for has 3-4+ toons and is not a professional player with a hardcore guild that easily farms T4).
    And yes I remember how Khitai initially was with the grind, without Turan solo dungeons and Refuge and how it got "way too easy" after a while.
    What are you even talking about haha. This game have gotten redicoulusly fast to gain good gear.

    Ardashir fort - Get epic helmet in one run.
    Khitai HM, get epic items in one run.
    Vile, Get cape in one run. And blue bigpieces with same dps as khitai epics.
    Wyrm - Get weapons near t3 in one run.

    I can name more but i dont have time, AND these are all instances where 2 players can carry a whole group to victory.
    Last edited by magnum92; 26th August 2013 at 23:20.
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus View Post
    Is the game is too hard because the mechanics are too complex or because there are too many gear checks ?
    It's because of the gear checks, and new players (players new to aoc) must grind khitai blues just to be able to be invited to easy NG 6man loops.

    Quote Originally Posted by aegeas View Post
    This might be an issue if you are brand new on your first 80, but if you explain this to people I would think a lot of people would be helpful
    That's exactly what I mean. New players have a hard time grasping what exactly they need in items, and it's hard to get into beginner 6man groups because most people want experience/geared players in their pug group. Joining a guild and making friends with a helpful person is probably the best course of action.

    But for this generation of gamers that want everything handed to them on a silver platter (look at how much blizzard nerfs their games to make it super easy), keeping things difficult creates an environment which is difficult to retain new players.

    Taking these two things into consideration - making it easier to solo grind rare trophies without relying on having groups of 6, is a good medium ground to "making the game easier" by reducing overall waiting period of getting khitai purples/finding a group that will invite you, getting lucky in raid drops etc. Keeping new dungeons such as coils at their current difficulty is perfectly fine. That's for geared vets to have a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vehl View Post
    That being, new players really need to find the appropriate guild to progress because going there in full PuGs won't work since the expectations won't be compatible.
    Which is the problem that I see with new players. In other games, you just sign up on the dungeon queue and bam you're getting gear instantly.



    My suggestions aren't really asking to make the game easier (except in house of crom raid), it's just grind reduction (you still grind just as much, but have no cooldowns on it so you don't have to wait xx days)


    Let me break down what would happen on a typical day of a player new to the game, just hit 80, and was given advice on what to do (but won't be invited to groups due to gear):
    3 hours: Do a loop of 1 or 2 different factions that they are working on first. 200-300 MoA earned
    2 hours: Do all available solo dungeons, 8-11 rares.
    3 hours: Looking for a group (all quests on cooldown, all dungeons on cooldown) Not invited to group b/c of gear
    That's potentially 8 hours of gameplay.
    ~20 days to earn 1 purple piece if they are never invited to a group and solo all their rares.
    Here's a typical day after my suggestions:
    2-3 hours: Same MoA grind 200-300
    5 hours: Solo dungeon loops with 30 minute cooldowns (5 rares for isles, 3 for refuge.) If you go back and fourth between them, and have paths set correctly, this is potentially 60-80 rares in 5 hours.
    ~4 days to earn 1 purple piece if they are never invited to a group and solo all their rares
    These arn't exact calculations I made, just quick observations in how you can grind gear quicker (in days spent waiting assessment) with less cooldowns, but the actual time spent grinding remains the same.


    For minigames, you're lucky to get 10-15 badges a day, and you can possibly put all 5 mingames on cooldown in 1 hour if you helped your team win all 5 matches in a row. Then you wait 4 more hours to do it again. With 30 minute cooldowns, you can minigame nostop and continue earning badges.
    Last edited by JohnPayne; 27th August 2013 at 01:23.

  4. #44

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    That experience you describe is really related to your server frankly, and i'm really sorry to hear it.
    On Crom you can see players forming and joining groups in green gear, literally.

    I even remember that hox a couple of months ago. The guy just hit level 80 and joined HMs with like 5K HP health, dealing 300 dps at best.
    He really had no clue and clearly was a new player, not a reroll or anything.
    Yet, i've never seen anyone kicking him or harassing him.

    He also used to form Palace groups at first, then formed Palace + monastery runs. All in all, people joined and i don't remember anyone quitting the group because "QQ, that hox is a leecher ! Yaaar, keeeel the n00b !!".

    He geared up in a couple of weeks. After a month i've seen him again in Pin Pin in full brittle blade.

    That little story happens all the time, and it's no big deal, no one cares, at all. And why should we ? I mean, even if the pom in the group is in tortage gear, so what, i joined with my T4 tank, so as long as he can stand there and look pretty, it's all i need.

    Actually, that's something which is rather common, many T4 characters join random HMs, sometimes just because they've seen that guy looking for a MT for 10 minutes, and they have some time to spare, so they just log their uber tank and go give a hand.

    So if we're only talking about gear, then no, AoC is not too hard, at all.
    But the community on your server must be horrible if to join just some HM people are asking for uber gear and skill and if players with powerful characters never give a hand to pugs and new players.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPayne View Post
    Here's a typical day after my suggestions:
    2-3 hours: Same MoA grind 200-300
    5 hours: Solo dungeon loops with 30 minute cooldowns (5 rares for isles, 3 for refuge.) If you go back and fourth between them, and have paths set correctly, this is potentially 60-80 rares in 5 hours.
    ~4 days to earn 1 purple piece if they are never invited to a group and solo all their rares
    These arn't exact calculations I made, just quick observations in how you can grind gear quicker (in days spent waiting assessment) with less cooldowns, but the actual time spent grinding remains the same.
    How can you do the solo dungeons with 30min cooldowns? Don't they have a 20 hours cooldown or am I missing something here?

    Also, as someone playing a new character returning after a 2 year+ absence, I think expecting people to be able to solo the toughest solo dungeons from day one is a bit unrealistic. I tried (and completed) forgotten city, but I had to use a 5min cooldown for each boss on my HoX and even then the last boss was very difficult and took me 3 attempts and this is supposedly one of the easier solo dungeons.

    The MoA grind seems about right, it takes me about that long to clear the grasslands + chosain quests last night on my HoX.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPayne View Post
    Which is the problem that I see with new players. In other games, you just sign up on the dungeon queue and bam you're getting gear instantly.
    Other MMO dungeons are mostly loads of trash and dumb tank&spank bosses. You cant compare this to Conan. Plus trust me u will also get kicked if the boss requires some special tactics and you are clueless.

    And again join a damn guild! Guilds are what makes any MMO tick.
    Last edited by Naerri; 27th August 2013 at 08:50.
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  7. #47

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    If one wants a game with less challenge, he turns to other titles. We have picked Age of Conan only for its difficulty, and most of us are happy that there are still parts that are hard and fun to do (Acheronian Ruins in Epic, Jade Dugout, T3.5, etc.)
    I remember asking the developers to reconsider the old T3 and make it a bit harder, but, instead, they made it too simple (that was last summer).
    Casual players or people with jobs, families, etc. do not require the easy mode in THIS game; for being casual does not mean that someone wants to get everything with ease. They just devote less time to the game and progress more slowly.



    Let us sum it up. These posts have answered the original poster in full.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texan615
    Cry more about being a casual and not wanting to put in the time and effort to succeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84
    Elitist? For suggesting that a player should level his character normally from level 1 to level 80 without powerleveling/offline levels? For saying that a player should learn the class by playing or reading or otherwise dedicating time to getting better on it? For saying that I appreciate the hardest instances because I have played the game for 5 years? I am no elitist. I would dare say that I am much more forthcoming and accepting towards new players than many others. I help players with less experience than myself almost on a daily basis. I explain strats in most of the groups I am in...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vehl
    PvE wise i don't think the game is too hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cins
    Make it easier = [to hell with] that [bad idea].
    Last edited by LunaticAsylumLA; 27th August 2013 at 09:10.
    • Remove daily rewards and the raid finder;
    • remove membership bonuses;
    • disable PVE XP for daily challenges;
    • remove WBs forever on Crom;
    • slow down the AA gain;
    • lower the PVP XP gain or remove the streak system;
    • remove AoE looting;
    • add the missing mobs back to Khesh., F. of the Dead, and Eigl. Mount.;
    • fix the 250+ms ping;
    • take the key away from Saddur;
    • revert T3, T3.5 (10.21.15), T4 (10.21.15), and GGG changes;
    • remove energy and add skills (like taunt) back.

  8. #48

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    YOU have picked it for difficulty. Which is valid. Others though might have picked it for completely different reasons. Even those choosing it for other reasons probably do enjoy a challenge from time to time.

    But why do you avoid more options and CHOICE and more variations in grind that would come both with the suggestion of another thread of "hard modes" as well as obvious "easy modes"???

    I do completely agree when it comes to replace existing content with easier (which might not always be so) content. Because there is NO need to do that. Just keep content and let players CHOOSE.

    Still there is obvious a demand for more accessability. Seems it will be time soon to do a proper analysis of the reward+fun/effort+time factors of the dungeons and show people how weird the progression curve really is and that it is not a "feeling" or "whine" or matter of "community" or "guilds" from newbies, if they feel being locked out of content.

    I am still shocked about people mentioning efforts reachable only by exploiting as "normal"...and assuming/expecting people to grind/work 8h or more a day on a single character...
    If this is normal to you, i am simply out of arguments and am actually not surprised about the developments in this game, if this is an opinion shared by the majority of remaining players or the devs.

    There might not even be such a feeling of inaccesibility, if there were alternative routes but pve progression like crafting or pvp...
    I sincerely hope they stop treating these as additions to the main pve part and thus link it to the existing grind, but open in each field their own valid tiers of progression.
    Last edited by Kurt2013; 27th August 2013 at 15:16.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt2013 View Post
    assuming/expecting people to grind/work 8h or more a day on a single character...
    Good point. From a personal point of view, i would say that no one should farm/grind for MoA and rare trophies.

    I mean, doing the solo instances like refuge is fun once in a while, but relying on that to get enough rares to buy epic gear strikes me as totally insane.

    Same for MoA. Logging every day just to do the same quests rotation is boring as hell and makes the game feels like a second job.

    Please, don't inflict that to yourself.

    There are many different ways to make your character progress, use them all, so that you don't kill your own fun by locking yourself into some brainless farming routine.

    All the MoA, relics, rares, etc, will juts pile up along the way, allowing you to get better stuff, which is nice to have but in no way mandatory.

    I feel some veterans stress new players too much with their retarded requirements for HMs, raids, etc.
    Then new players think they need that item, this specc, to achieve that much dps.
    Seriously, with less retarded elitist guidelines the new player path would be so much easier and enjoyable.

  10. #50

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    My suggestions would lead to more options and instances players could get at least 1 rare from as well as conversion rates that would allow for faster progression, if done as intended, but allowing at least "some" progression, if the player focus is somewhere else. This can be done without removing existing content or difficulties.

    It comes down to progression/time spent ingame. It should not matter to funcom as long as players pay and play together...but the reality looks completely different.

    And the problem is not necessarily, if things are really too grindy or hard (exploits, a helpful guild or experience can help a lot to reduce it, no arguing there). Problems with frustrated players arise also, when they "feel" it is too hard (and i don't mean the "i want it all and now" crowd, but the "i tried and failed" crowd).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus View Post
    ...

    All the MoA, relics, rares, etc, will juts pile up along the way, allowing you to get better stuff, which is nice to have but in no way mandatory.

    ...
    I regret having not saved the old forum thread about rare tokens, but if i have time i will open up a new one with the progression different types of players have. For example, if you don't enjoy hard modes (or can't do them for various reasons) and can stand only one or two solo instances per day...that piling up along the way can take a loooong time. While (as others rightfully mentioned here already), if you are in a helpful guild, know your way around and LIKE to do k6 instances...they can pile up really fast. Which wouldn't be bad, if rare tokens would not be required for almost any new pve item above a certain threshhold you want to buy (again player choice <<< luck). The whole positive effects of a token system (as alternative to lucky drops and rolls allowing for players to sooner or later get what they want) are broken/inbalanced for non raid pve items (though broken for raid weapons too).
    Last edited by Kurt2013; 27th August 2013 at 15:47.

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