The Push to 80

[twofeathers]

(The start of this applies to my guild, as this was initially posted on my guild's forum. Since most of you don't know me here, it will start of with familiarity that you don't have. I did feel that there was a lot that I had to say that applies to all players, however, so I copied and pasted the thread from my guild's forum to here.)

As many of you will discover when you log in, my power nap last night turned into a full night of sleep. I managed to log in this morning about an hour before the servers went down for maintenance, and got about 3 bars from 79, but alas...the mighty 80 slipped from my grasp. I guess it just wasn't meant to be. In keeping with Funcom fashion, I will always be a day late and a buck short, as the old adage goes.

This does not mean that I won't keep pushing to get to 80. It just means that I don't get a bunch of free AA points like the 80s. Personally, I think it says a lot about whom Funcom puts value on as players. Most of the dungeons are made with level 80 players in mind. Most of the good gear is placed with 80s in mind. The PvP doesn't exist for anyone below 80 unless you're on a PvP server. Simply put, Funcom has set it up so that the game actually starts at 80.

This doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the game levels 1-79, but as many of you may have noticed by now, people don't group much before 80. People don't seem to want to run anything dungeon-wise before 80. While leveling, this was a major annoyance for me, that everyone wants to rush to 80 and not do any of the sub-80 content. I myself, have only gone to the savage coast on one character, and I don't think that I did everything in that area. I haven't even been to the area they added after Savage Coast at all on any character. I would like to see what that area is like eventually, but as of writing this, I haven't been to that area. I don't even know what the area is about. The hardcore REH fans might know, but I don't. I'm familiar with some of the Conan Lore, but I'm far from an expert.

In leveling, I have seen a lot of people refuse to group, some of them often seeming to deliberately work against me with the intent to slow me down or for the sheer delight of being jerks (Running in and killing mobs I was fighting...literally sprinting in to where a boss was and killing it while I was fighting the mobs surrounding it to get to it, and not even having the courtesy to toss me a group invite, etc -- I mean, yeah, ok, you need that mob, I get it...so do I. You're not alone in this game.), and I have spent hours asking in global and nph for a group for various dungeons, to no avail.

In the end, I had to choke on the bitter pill that tastes reminiscent of a game full of Solo Players who would rather get PLd to 80 and skip all content, except for endgame content than to actually socialize, play in groups, and make friends. While choking on this pill, I myself have been forced to skip content that I didn't want to skip in the interest of gaining the next level, getting that next handful of silver, or that next piece of gear that would be an upgrade that I didn't need a group (since none would be there to be had anyway) to finish the quest for.

I have even done several group rated quests solo, out of desperation, to get some things done. A good example being those group quests where all of the undead are in Field of the Dead.Those quests are rated as group quests, but I soloed them all. Many people do. I asked in the channels for a group, said what I was running, but nobody seemed interested in joining, so I did them alone. Generally speaking, unless the mob is epic, or hits so hard that soloing is impossible, I've developed the habit of trying to do those quests alone without even bothering to search for a group. For you, my Mercenary cohorts, I will say "Do not feel like you have to tread the path I have walked. If you can't get a group, I will run you. Just so you can at least experience the content. I would prefer if people within the guild would pull together to help each other and run as real groups, but I know that isn't always possible."

My personal feelings about people getting PLd is that I feel the player short-changes themselves on learning necessary skills and how to behave in various situations in a group setting. In a nutshell, people who get PLd don't learn to play their class very well. (As an afterthought, it occurred to me that not only do PL players cheat themselves, but people like me, who would prefer to run in a group, we get cheated on developing the skills to know how to work in group settings too.) While it is commendable that Funcom would want to keep things interesting for the endgame players, ignoring those players who aren't at endgame levels yet only encourages the desire of a player to get PLd. The 40 AA for level 80 characters is a prime example. Why should only level 80 characters be rewarded? Why not start the rewards at level 10? Give level 10-20 10 AA, 21-30 15 AA, 31-40 20 AA, 41-50 25 AA, 51-60 30 AA, 61-70 35 AA, and THEN give level 80s 40 AA.

The idea that people have lives and do other things besides getting PLd to get to 80 shouldn't be a punishable offense, but by only showing favoritism on level 80 IS punishing those lower than 80. Maybe some of those people who felt like they needed to get PLd to 80 to get those 40 AA wouldn't have felt like they needed to be PLd so badly, if they'd known they would get a little something, no matter what level group they were in. Now those PLd 80s will have to spend months actually learning how to play, being called "baddie" the whole time, and one thing I know more than anything about the player community in AoC, is that people love to criticize and insult other players.

Some of them seem to live for it. That's why you see the same handful of people talking smack in global chat day after day. People like me just turn off the global channel because we don't care to see it. The only problem with turning off the channel is, that although MY game experience suddenly gets a lot better, I am now unaware of possible groups forming, and turning off the channel to avoid seeing the hateful children hurt each others' feelings is like sweeping dust under a carpet. The dust is still there, you just can't see it. Sooner or later, that dust will become a large enough pile to become a new problem that begs to be dealt with.

I can't expect the world to change. That would be unrealistic. These people that behave with such antisocial behavior and hostility though...can that really be called good for the community? At what point in time did we choose to sacrifice our sense of humanity? Where now we say that It's not okay to have feelings. It's not okay to exercise common courtesy. It's not okay to be polite or sensitive to other peoples' feelings. It's not okay to have a life that stops you from being the best of the best of players in a game. It's not okay to be a casual gamer. At what point in time did a silly video game become more important and valuable than real life, and the players who play the game?

Why even bother to have levels and all of the sub-80 content if the only thing that matters is level 80 endgame content? Why not just start characters at level 80, hand them a full set of epic gear and expect them to learn to play the class? I mean, after all, most of the snobs I have seen running their mouth in global seem to think everyone is supposed to be created at level 80, pro in their class, totally knowledgeable about every dungeon/raid, and dressed in full epics anyway...and if they aren't, they are "fail" by default.

Alright, Mercs. That got a little long-winded and off topic, but there's so much here that applies to most of the people playing the game now. Even if most of us in the guild are laid back and we have managed to avoid developing the elitist attitude that plagues the game, I thought I'd do a copy/paste of this and put it up on the AoC Forums as food for thought for the devs and other players in the game. - See more at: http://mercenary.guildlaunch.com/for...28254#34022733

[xiulo88]

Mate, the time you spent writing this wall Im not going to read you will be reach lvl 80 :P

[-tomhet-]

i got the aa's on my low lvl's so i dont get some of the rant, because ill asume every one with low lvl's got the same aa's i did.

my opinion and i know a lot wont agree; i found lvling a bit dull and very single player based.
when i played tsw for like 2 months i realy enjoyed the easiness of making groups while questing and the whole mentality of no lvl'ing you just grind your decks.
i would realy enjoy seeing all zone lvl80 content and all quests granting moa's and have more factions added at least for pve, and maybe add thieves guild, bandit raiders, merceneries for pvp factions with ffa world pvp in mind.
i see a lot people playing this game with no interest learning to fully master a single class they just get power lvl'd from 16-30 then use offline lvl's to 80 and starting farming kk like good little boys and asking for gear aa's and xp of others while having none themselves.

another thing i enjoyed about tsw the pve quests were inteligent and harsh and encouraged teamplay and learning to play and adjusting gameplay to each quest/instance.

wich is main reason why i find lvling dull its absurdly easy, very single player based you dont realy learn that much about your class abilities and overall low lvl dungeons are extra easy, only one being a bit more chalenging at low lvl's is black castle wich i find realy well done from multiple perpectives.
at risk of finding it contradictory i also find pyramid of the ancient a very well done solo instance with unique mechanics wich unfortunatly didnt get replicated in any other solo dungeon of any lvl.

overall personaly would love to see further approximation to tsw system with all zones working as repeatable quests for lvl 80's, and have players progress in aa's from start with lvl80 being given.

[bruceleroy]

I think there are som good points, points of frustration and somepoints that are dependent on the time and server you play on.

PV on tyranny primarily happens at the 19 and 59 brackets. More so than at 80 IMO. EST in the US from 7-?pm are the times to pvp. Its also open world, so you can just hunt people and kill.

Group quests under 80, absolutly impossible to get a group. Agreed. I do see people asking for groups under 80, but the population is so low, that there are only about 10 of that class level on at any given time on tyranny. Levle 80 dungeons are much easier to get groups for. However, on Set, I see groups under 80 run all the time during prime time.

So the server you play on and the times you play matter. I imagine this will be better for everyone at firs ton server merges.

I also think they could do 6 mans like minis. Sign up for a 6 man, when enough players sign up, off you go, it ports you to the dungeon.

[Kurt2013]

Even in 2010 people warned funcom about this. This is at least on popular impression you get after a few months/weeks of playing (it might get different though, the longer you specialize on just that 80 gameplay).

With khitai they offered a new 20-40 zone and 2 scaling instances for 40-80 and later turan brough a 50-60 zone and 2 more scaling instances (which was a good move).
On the other hand the "unchained" versions are lvl80 only.

With noites point in mind, it should be obvious what can help here. Scaling content for GROUPS not only solo (apart from the resource zone instances like frost swamp etc.) and with appropiate rewards (can't be so hard to evaluate the average time for a dungeon (incl. LFG time), the intended difficulty and the accessability and then balance loot accordingly). And i don't mean scaling to 6 mans and in lvl only. Why not tend to smaller groups that do not need the unholy trinity of tank, dps and heal? Fights that involve skill and timing and use of ccs as well as movement? Something to smooth the steps from solo, 6-ppl groups to raids?

About bruceleroy: I would not even blame population. If you take f2p and premium together, the population is not bad and the demand for low level instances is there. Big problem is communication and accessibility though. Many completely new players lack money, swift horses, paths and access to global. On the other hands many veterans are busy grinding and they don't log in the middle of a khitai group or solo instances to a twink usually.

[Mellaus]

Couldn't read that wall of text, but i guess it's about some "Noooooes, i missed those 40 free AA points for my fresh level 80" rant.

Dear new player, let me enlighten you : 40 AA points is nothing.
Those 40 points will not change your gaming experience. At all.
What you can or cannot do is not defined by your AA. At all.

AA is something your character gathers on the long term, it is not an end in itself.
You are not supposed nor expected to play staring 24/7 at your AA bar while it fills up.
This, would be a miserable gaming experience, spare yourself, avoid it.

All in all, just relax. The point of gaming is to have fun, and it does not seem to be the case here.

[Patrynn]

I think there's two points in this semi-rant:
1. You think sub-80's should get the free AA's
2. People should enjoy the ride TO 80, and not be forced to only enjoy post 80

My humble opinion on #1: you got AA's while leveling, this is a bonus - don't be greedy =)

#2: I agree to a point - while I don't turn down PLing sessions (thanks, Sard - you're the bestest!), it's only ever for a boost, never a complete free ride. I still get to grind a LOT of levels on my own - learning the class on the way. I wish there was a reason for doing sub 80 dungeons. Maybe when they bring out achievements, there'll be a small incentive. We'll see I guess =p

[twofeathers]

Couldn't read that wall of text, but i guess it's about some "Noooooes, i missed those 40 free AA points for my fresh level 80" rant.

Dear new player, let me enlighten you : 40 AA points is nothing.
Those 40 points will not change your gaming experience. At all.
What you can or cannot do is not defined by your AA. At all.

AA is something your character gathers on the long term, it is not an end in itself.
You are not supposed nor expected to play staring 24/7 at your AA bar while it fills up.
This, would be a miserable gaming experience, spare yourself, avoid it.

All in all, just relax. The point of gaming is to have fun, and it does not seem to be the case here.

New player here actually has 2 existing 80s. The character I decided recently to make my new main doesn't get the freebies. However, when they handed out the AA to other players the first time around, I wasn't able to be subscribed then, so those 4-5 50-65 level characters that I have get shafted both times around. Once for not being active then, once for not getting to 80 fast enough. The overall spirit of the post was more than just "Oh no, I didn't get any free AA for my fresh 80s", but as you said, you couldn't read the wall of text. So I'll take your semi-trolling comments with a grain of salt. As for not being able to read the wall of text. Might I suggest Hooked on Phonics?

[bruceleroy]

About bruceleroy: I would not even blame population. If you take f2p and premium together, the population is not bad and the demand for low level instances is there. Big problem is communication and accessibility though. Many completely new players lack money, swift horses, paths and access to global. On the other hands many veterans are busy grinding and they don't log in the middle of a khitai group or solo instances to a twink usually.

Depemds on server, 6 level 39-59 on tyranny right now. Not getting a group on this server at this level. Population has everything to do with grouping. If people arent playing, you arent going to group.

[twofeathers]

I think there's two points in this semi-rant:
1. You think sub-80's should get the free AA's
2. People should enjoy the ride TO 80, and not be forced to only enjoy post 80

My humble opinion on #1: you got AA's while leveling, this is a bonus - don't be greedy =)

#2: I agree to a point - while I don't turn down PLing sessions (thanks, Sard - you're the bestest!), it's only ever for a boost, never a complete free ride. I still get to grind a LOT of levels on my own - learning the class on the way. I wish there was a reason for doing sub 80 dungeons. Maybe when they bring out achievements, there'll be a small incentive. We'll see I guess =p

Someone being in a DMC group at level 75, yeah, I get it. Not a huge deal there. When you see a level 23 necro in the group though, and you see them again in a few days as a level 80...

There is a reason to do the sub-80 dungeons. Some of the quest rewards are pretty decent, you get some early experience working with groups, and some people actually like to see all of the content. Those people are a dying breed, but there are still some out there.

As for the AA thing, maybe there's a sound logic and method of balancing there, but I'm just not seeing it. The AA portion for the most part is really a non-issue, but it was the reason I was pushing so hard to get my chosen main to 80 asap. Those not given away will be taken by force in 6 mans later. I just thought it would be nice if they gave a little to every level bracket, so as not to put the weight of value and importance solely on the endgame crowd. Most of those people already have so much sense of self-importance that it's sickening as it is.