The Push to 80

[twofeathers]

Even in 2010 people warned funcom about this. This is at least on popular impression you get after a few months/weeks of playing (it might get different though, the longer you specialize on just that 80 gameplay).

With khitai they offered a new 20-40 zone and 2 scaling instances for 40-80 and later turan brough a 50-60 zone and 2 more scaling instances (which was a good move).
On the other hand the "unchained" versions are lvl80 only.

With noites point in mind, it should be obvious what can help here. Scaling content for GROUPS not only solo (apart from the resource zone instances like frost swamp etc.) and with appropiate rewards (can't be so hard to evaluate the average time for a dungeon (incl. LFG time), the intended difficulty and the accessability and then balance loot accordingly). And i don't mean scaling to 6 mans and in lvl only. Why not tend to smaller groups that do not need the unholy trinity of tank, dps and heal? Fights that involve skill and timing and use of ccs as well as movement? Something to smooth the steps from solo, 6-ppl groups to raids?

About bruceleroy: I would not even blame population. If you take f2p and premium together, the population is not bad and the demand for low level instances is there. Big problem is communication and accessibility though. Many completely new players lack money, swift horses, paths and access to global. On the other hands many veterans are busy grinding and they don't log in the middle of a khitai group or solo instances to a twink usually.

You just nailed it. The only thing I would add to further drive the point is to suggest that they make some changes to make grouping "worthwhile". Then if someone wants to be all antisocial and play with themselves, they can, but in the larger picture, people might start to see where grouping has benefits over playing with yourself.

[Daynan]

They need to encourage players to play their characters rather than use offlines. This would create more activity at lower levels.

Maybe they should put some useful items (useful even at level 80) in places like black castle, tord tomb, halls of eternal frost that are only attainable if the quest is achieved at the appropriate levels.

[twofeathers]

They need to encourage players to play their characters rather than use offlines. This would create more activity at lower levels.

Maybe they should put some useful items (useful even at level 80) in places like black castle, tord tomb, halls of eternal frost that are only attainable if the quest is achieved at the appropriate levels.

I kind of like this idea, because it might entice more low level dungeon running, but the item...even useful at 80...how useful of an item are we talking? Would it be something that becomes a game breaker to not have at 80? If so, how do we put this item into the hands of the characters that are already past level to run the dungeon and get the item?

Also, Black Castle is impossible to run without a group, no matter what level you are. Perhaps they should design all dungeons intended to be group instances like Black Castle...plus put the special items you could only get by completing the quest within the specified level parameters?

Maybe also work in the mentoring system so that people who are already 80 and would like to see some of the content could, instead of mentoring others up, or in addition to being able to do that, mentor down to the average level of the group members.

Put all dungeons on a queue system like minis, with the ability to mentor down or up, special items that would still be useful at 80 but only obtainable of you are really at or mentored down to a specific level range. A level 80 mentoring down could have all exp gained in the dungeon allocated to AA exp at a conversion comparable to what they'd get in a 6 man, for helping lower level players and running dungeons they never would have ran otherwise. The lower levels could enjoy something like a 10% exp increase per additional member to the group, thus making a full group preferable. That could be chock full of win for everyone.

[twofeathers]

i got the aa's on my low lvl's so i dont get some of the rant, because ill asume every one with low lvl's got the same aa's i did.

That's just it. Not everyone did get the AA on their low levels. Some people weren't subscribers at that time. However, if they are going to reward only subscribers with AA, why don't they just make it a monthly thing. Give every character on a subscriber's account an extra 10 AA or something. I myself didn't come back to AoC until June 2, so I missed out on the May AA Giveaway. Even if I'd known about it before then, I wasn't in a position to restart my subscription. I realize you don't have to subscribe to play, but personally, if I'm not subscribed, with all of the limitations on f2p, it's just not worth playing without being subscribed.

[bruceleroy]

That's just it. Not everyone did get the AA on their low levels. Some people weren't subscribers at that time. However, if they are going to reward only subscribers with AA, why don't they just make it a monthly thing. Give every character on a subscriber's account an extra 10 AA or something. I myself didn't come back to AoC until June 2, so I missed out on the May AA Giveaway. Even if I'd known about it before then, I wasn't in a position to restart my subscription. I realize you don't have to subscribe to play, but personally, if I'm not subscribed, with all of the limitations on f2p, it's just not worth playing without being subscribed.

If you just play, you get AA. Not sure why to even have AA if its just going to be handed out. But the entire game should go free to play versus having this subset of players.

[twofeathers]

If you just play, you get AA. Not sure why to even have AA if its just going to be handed out. But the entire game should go free to play versus having this subset of players.

Who would cover the costs of server maintenance and operation then?

The majority of F2P People are F2P because they think the game is worth playing, but they don't think the game is worth paying for to play. The rest either quit, subscribe eventually, or are a usual subscriber on a bad month of bills...like oh, gee, do I pay my electric? Can't play AoC without that... Do I pay my internet? Can't play AoC without that... Oh, I know! I'll just let my sub lapse for a month! It will be miserable with all those F2P restrictions, but better than nothing I guess.

Rather than trying to earmark the "subset" of subscribers (the ones who continue to make the game available for the cheapskates) as the "uncool" players to crucify, maybe it's time for the leeches -aka- free players to recognize exactly who are the players at the bottom of the food chain here. Money talks...bullcrap walks. Get used to it.

[Patrynn]

As for the AA thing, maybe there's a sound logic and method of balancing there, but I'm just not seeing it. The AA portion for the most part is really a non-issue, but it was the reason I was pushing so hard to get my chosen main to 80 asap. Those not given away will be taken by force in 6 mans later. I just thought it would be nice if they gave a little to every level bracket, so as not to put the weight of value and importance solely on the endgame crowd. Most of those people already have so much sense of self-importance that it's sickening as it is.

Even starting 6/2/13 as you later mentioned, you got your new main to 78 (almost 79) a few hours before the free 40 AA's were given away. That means you gained 77 AA's while leveling. You didn't get the May 40, and you didn't get the July 40... but you still got 77. That's the logic and balancing part you're not getting.

Apart from that one thing, we are mostly in agreement on the rest of the game... I leveled up my guardian from scratch (ftp) and it was rough. I could never find groups other than to finish a tough quest (ne'er a word was spoken) until the late 50's when I met some great people who invited me into their guild. That's when the fun started... but I still couldn't get the interest in lower level dungeons, because there's not enough incentive. It IS a race to 80... because that's where the majority of the population already is.

[twofeathers]

Even starting 6/2/13 as you later mentioned, you got your new main to 78 (almost 79) a few hours before the free 40 AA's were given away. That means you gained 77 AA's while leveling. You didn't get the May 40, and you didn't get the July 40... but you still got 77. That's the logic and balancing part you're not getting.

Apart from that one thing, we are mostly in agreement on the rest of the game... I leveled up my guardian from scratch (ftp) and it was rough. I could never find groups other than to finish a tough quest (ne'er a word was spoken) until the late 50's when I met some great people who invited me into their guild. That's when the fun started... but I still couldn't get the interest in lower level dungeons, because there's not enough incentive. It IS a race to 80... because that's where the majority of the population already is.

For my BS, who will have gained 63 total at 80. You're right. Where I felt cheated is that for May, I got nothing, because I wasn't back until June. For June, my ToS, who was hurting because of not being part of the balancing effort will be slightly fixed.

However, for a sub's level 1 character in May, they got those AA in May, plus they will get every AA point for leveling, 79 in total + 40 more if they got that level 1 to 80 by last night. It's not entirely fair, but most of my initial post wasn't in the spirit of the AA. I stated what I thought would have been a more fair dispersion of AA points over various level groupings, but as I said, what Funcom didn't give me, I will take by force in 6 mans later.

Lots of people are hanging on my words about the AA, but missing the spirit of my post in its entirety. The AA was just one issue that really isn't that much of an issue. There are a lot of social and gameplay issues that I was on about as well. Those are the spirit of the post.

I'm not accusing you of this, but it does seem in keeping with the AoC Player Community that people will look for the negative in everything someone has to say, and they focus on that negative for comment. They just HAVE to criticize. They just HAVE to play the devil's advocate. I never have understood that logic. I mean, what's the point? I don't expect people to totally agree with every point I try to make, but they could at least accede my other points while tearing me apart for the ones they disagree with. It seems like that's all they want to do is find someone's points and pick them apart while tearing that poster's throat out. To what end? If that's what people feel they have to do to make themselves feel good, it kind of makes them a waste of space in the world.

[Patrynn]

Lots of people are hanging on my words about the AA, but missing the spirit of my post in its entirety. The AA was just one issue that really isn't that much of an issue. There are a lot of social and gameplay issues that I was on about as well. Those are the spirit of the post.

I'm not accusing you of this, but it does seem in keeping with the AoC Player Community that people will look for the negative in everything someone has to say, and they focus on that negative for comment. They just HAVE to criticize. They just HAVE to play the devil's advocate. I never have understood that logic. I mean, what's the point? I don't expect people to totally agree with every point I try to make, but they could at least accede my other points while tearing me apart for the ones they disagree with. It seems like that's all they want to do is find someone's points and pick them apart while tearing that poster's throat out. To what end? If that's what people feel they have to do to make themselves feel good, it kind of makes them a waste of space in the world.

As I said in my initial reply, there were two parts - the AA part, and the way the game is focused on post-80. You kinda rant which changes the tone of your post from what (I believe) you want. I am a pretty new player myself, having only played 4-5 months, so have gone through the majority of what you describe recently. And there were a bunch of us agreeing with your take on the 80+ focus of the game, and how it's a shame. Guess you skipped over that part.

The only difference is that I was lucky enough to be playing (and subbing) in May. Was that enough to completely change my outlook?

[twofeathers]

As I said in my initial reply, there were two parts - the AA part, and the way the game is focused on post-80. You kinda rant which changes the tone of your post from what (I believe) you want. I am a pretty new player myself, having only played 4-5 months, so have gone through the majority of what you describe recently. And there were a bunch of us agreeing with your take on the 80+ focus of the game, and how it's a shame. Guess you skipped over that part.

The only difference is that I was lucky enough to be playing (and subbing) in May. Was that enough to completely change my outlook?

The AA thing is annoying but has very little of anything to do with my overall outlook. My overall outlook is that the game seems to cater to the level 80 crowds, and more specifically, to the level 80 crowds that think that being level 80 and in t4 gear or at pvp 10 makes them special somehow. I mean, seriously? Their guild clears this raid or that, and their character can beat up my character in pvp, and they think this makes me lose sleep at night in real life?

Goading me about their game accomplishments just makes me want to log off and uninstall. That might make them happy for a couple hours, but then they have to pick on someone else. The amount of players to pick on is getting to be slim pickings as it is. So their crappy holier than thou attitude in the end will be the cause of their own tears of suffering, when there's no playerbase left to raid or pvp with...oh...wait...that's already a problem isn't it? LOL

The thing I find most comical is that all of these people with all of these crappy attitudes keep trying to blame the game for why people keep leaving. They can't see past their own arrogance and realize that they themselves, are a part of the problem, and that their attitude is just as much to blame for many people leaving.