raid relics

[Kurt2013]

Kurt, this has already been discussed on the European forum.

The tempo at which one gets T1 and T2 gear is appallingly fast and boring; and whenever one gets his full gear, he visits those raids only to obtain his weapon of choice.
For T2 raids, weapons are the means of attainment: only killing the last bosses yields it, and bypassing it is not fair at all.
For both T1 and T2 raids, the element of surprise and luck necessitates social interaction, delectation, and the sense of achievement. Without obtainable weapons, we raid more, are stimulated to lead raids with our own rules, and interact. Even "ninja-looter" is a part of the interaction, completely effaced in the ennui of the Lord of the Rings game, where everyone gets his own loot from the chest.

That is too bad that Funcom deleted the old thread on the European forum. There were several pages of discussion on disadvantages of obtainable raid weapons.

I sincerely doubt your statement that "without weapons we raid more". I rather think it is the other way around, since obtaining weapons has moved to khitai HM and rare token grind for various reasons.

I can only repeat things from the deleted european forum then:

- the progress of t1/t2 aquirance of gear is in no way linked to artificially leaving out weapons of the system. It is just not logical to leave them out...and as you can see ingame, the blackmail carrot (or as you say social motivation) is NOT working. People are not signing for more raids and longer for raids...they just stop or get frustrated like noite. He did what you said, he lead raids for YEARS...without getting what he wanted.

- which brings me to a second point. Token systems are a way to let players choose what they like. No need to take out the luck element, despite what people might think, it will still be there. Just look at khitai nm and other instances there. Adding tokens for weapons will NOT decrease the popularity. And if they are useful for even other stuff or convertable, it will result in MORE raids, not less, joined even by people who don't need the gear anymore. Not like now (again citing noite), when people get the items and stop playing.

- Speed. Tokens do not have to speed up things...in this regard being lucky is unargueable the fastest way to gear up. There is a middle ground, but artificially disabling the token system for a random chosen part of the progression is just clueless...sorry funcom, because it is NOT working.

- also there is the issue of obtaining "non class" items or the ninja drama. A token addition would solve it once and for all...less drama. There is a certain kind of social interaction, i am not sad to loose.

about your points:
- the speed can be adjusted, both in droprates and token cost
- weapons dropping from lastboss can be solved by adjusting drop rate from them and cost as well
- unless you remove random drops, you will always keep the surprise and luck effect and people will still keep killing the final bosses...and even if not, when the cost of weapons is high enough, then what harm is done, since raids have cooldowns and those managing to down the last ones, will get additional chances by luck AND get tokens faster

[wraithminion]

I agree. The cost should be around 10 - 15 relics plus 5 gold at the trader. Raids would still be going on because you could get different weapons for different reasons such as taking the guard sword for tanking, the conq sword for dps or the ranger sword for the prot. This avoids hard feelings from loot roles.

[Daynan]

I'd say 15 for 1 slot items such as dagger, bow and quiver and 25 for 2 slot items such as staves, polearms and 2handers.

[Dodgeball]

Agree, adding these to T1-3 vendors should be done but scale accordingly. T1 weapons should only require 15-25 relics, T2 15-25 relics, but T3 weapons should require a rare relic to go along with 15-25 normal relics. This way people will be encourages to complete all of T3 instead of just farming the lower floor for weapons. T4 weapons should not be available to buy untill/If T5 comes out.

[Khaletohep]

The number of T1 tokens you proposed is too much, I think. One only gets 3 tokens in a T1 run, but 5 on a T2, and even 10 in a T3 run. Tokens costs should scale accordingly. The increased difficulty is already reflected in the better stats of the weapons.

The same logic is already in the game with buying the armor pieces. You need about 13 runs to get a full set of armor both in T1 and in T2.

T1 Raid:
3 big (head, chest, legs) x 6 = 18
+
5 small (hands, wrists, shoulder, belt, feet)] x 4 = 20
=
38 total / 3 tokens per run -> ~13 runs

T2 Raid:
3 big (head, chest, legs) x 10 = 30
+
5 small (hands, wrists, shoulder, belt, feet)] x 7 = 35
=
65 total / 5 tokens per run -> 13 runs

Personally, I'd set costs equal or slightly above a bigh armor piece, i. e. 4-6 for T1 and 10-12 for T2, and twice that for two handed weapons.

[LunaticAsylumLA]

We need people to get geared quicker so they can be integrated into proper raiding and Hard Modes. Make T1 - 3 weapons buyable with relics. T3 with relics and a rare relic maybe.

I would say we need people who enjoy the pace of the game, craft, and look around Hyboria, while learning how to play at their own speed. Speeding up raiding and gearing up faster does not solve any of these problems, but actually adds more.

The only two things that need to be done are adjusting the relic prices for T1-T2 items (Funcom should realize that they must be higher - 4 relics for one item is just too low) and adding purchasable shards for T4 relics.

[nuadar]

The only two things that need to be done are adjusting the relic prices for T1-T2 items (Funcom should realize that they must be higher - 4 relics for one item is just too low)

That is the single most ridiculous thing I read in this thread...

No one really cares about t1-t2 aside from vanity, shard farm and ibis crafting and making prices on collectors higher definately won't fix that, it would do quite the opposite. Why would anyone sink weeks of t1 raiding just to get one or two pieces from relics while they can get much better gear in khitai, in about the same time(and solo btw)?

[-Shink-]

I would say we need people who enjoy the pace of the game, craft, and look around Hyboria, while learning how to play at their own speed. Speeding up raiding and gearing up faster does not solve any of these problems, but actually adds more.

The only two things that need to be done are adjusting the relic prices for T1-T2 items (Funcom should realize that they must be higher - 4 relics for one item is just too low) and adding purchasable shards for T4 relics.

The fact the you enjoy going at a snail's pace ,which is fine,does not mean it is the same for everyone.You can choose to not use offline levels,to not take shortcuts,to not buy weapons with relics and to do all crafting quests on all of your chars.

Also the reason that often people can't play their characters is not offline leveling or gearing up too fast,it's the boredom to read/search/bother to learn the game.That is not cured by forcing them to do it by endless repetitive tasks.

So while you can have the gameplay you want i did not find any fun in waiting 4 years to get a barbarian tier 2 axe after doing BRC from progress raids to going on a full t4 char just for the fun of it.

Progressing at the pace you want is fine,keeping others forcefully back due to luck factor is bad logic.And while i agree that too many shortcuts ruin the game the opposite is also true for the current topic.

[-tomhet-]

so lets see here we have 15 token types, actualy 16 token types given everyopne agrees imperial insignias should be in the token inventory and not in the quest inventory.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/610/9tan.png

campaign badges
conquest trophies

the pvp tokens you can spend them in some potions, gear and weapons, mounts and some weird pvp articles no one uses, prowess potions, combo ranks.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1540/0bp8.png
only problem is you cant buy blue 4 hour potions with them wich i think would be totaly fair for pvp centric players to be able to spend the tokens on them instead of being forced to pve or use item shop.

now we have

esteem tokens
mark of acclaim
simple trophies 1-3
rare trophy

wich you can spend in a wide variety of items, from blue armors to 4 hour faction potions, purple boots&wrists armors, mounts, combo ranks blue 4 hour potions, mastery pots, epic armors&weapons.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/976/173u.png

then we have the problem

simple relics 1-4
rare relic
dragon tear

wich can only be used to buy tier armor only.

once you get full t1 or t2 you have no reason or use for the relics you win.
t3 at least you can buy shards exiled god and special recipes for t3 crafted weapons
t4 you can only buy armor exclusively

so you have raids wich are harder to organize and complete granting relics wich cant be used for anything at all.

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[Amellie]

I have 655 Tier 3 Relics and 76 Tier 4.
I don't need shards, I already have 2 Tier 3 crafted weapons.

So I guess I will go and make some Ibis for the Americans.


Sigh...